Trump allowed a gun sale Obama wouldn't

Levi.CO said:
Did you know that townhall was originally owned by the heritage foundation? Do you have any idea how many dollars they have spent in your lifetime to get you to think and feel exactly how they want?
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Nowhere close to what Hillary spent in the last campaign, and FAR more than the Russians. ;)
 
I saw that you like guns.
I do too. But I trust me.
Therefore, where do you want the debate to focus Bucky?
Will you be the cold dead fingers guy? Because the rounds you squeeze off, even with a bumpstock, even with 3,000 rounds in your loaded magazines, the ones coming thru your door have a Trillion-dollar back-up and finally nukes (if this trump-pence lovehate brofest with North Korea button-lovers doesn't expend them too soon). You want to die for Breitbart? For Trump?
No children you have. I hope.
 
NorCalBrock said:
Problem - mass amounts of kids walking into school. Sitting ducks. If a suicidal teen wanted a weapon of mass destruction and become a terrorist, they could take out 20-30 kids no problem.

Why is it so easy for the general public to get these weapons on demand?
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You mean trucks? A tree truck plowing through that crowd could kill as many or more as a gun. (Even though it is heavily regulated and licensed, and against the law to run people over).

Seriously though, this is one reason I don't want to turn every school into a fortress.
 
Bucknut said:
Nowhere close to what Hillary spent in the last campaign, and FAR more than the Russians. ;)
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You are probably right Buck...she was a shit candidate who didn't even show up in swing states and blew her load on consultants.

Russia even spent effort on Bernie.

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Bucknut said:
You mean trucks? A tree truck plowing through that crowd could kill as many or more as a gun. (Even though it is heavily regulated and licensed, and against the law to run people over).

Seriously though, this is one reason I don't want to turn every school into a fortress.
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I agree - but I can also understand regulations have a positive net effect. They reduce death and harm even though nuts will always break laws.

If a law or regulation is going to be broken by onlu the bad guys, why have any at all? It is a superfluous argument.

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oakwilt said:
Therefore, where do you want the debate to focus Bucky?
Will you be the cold dead fingers guy?
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I want the debate to be reality focused. I'm not trying to be argumentative when I say that guns will always be here. I believe that to be true. We cannot get rid of them. Since they will always be available, we should stop focusing on that side of the equation. To use Brock's example: commercial trucks are heavily regulated and licensed - but I can still steal one and kill people. The same will always be true of guns.

As I said before, I am OK with a bump stock ban. I see no need for civilians to have access to fully automatic weapons or close approximations. I have no problem with background checks.

I would like to debate to focus on earlier intervention. Maybe give courts the power to temporarily hold someone who has raised red flags. Or at least start talking about it. I understand there are civil liberty issues involved.

I would also like to see some common sense steps taken to secure our schools without making them look like prisons. Let's let teachers who are willing to be trained have access to weapons to protect their students. Biometric safes seem like a possible solution.

I'd like to see more outreach. More mentoring. More of a non-governmental safety net. Churches do a lot of this. Don't write them off.
 
Bucknut said:
I want the debate to be reality focused. I'm not trying to be argumentative when I say that guns will always be here. I believe that to be true. We cannot get rid of them. Since they will always be available, we should stop focusing on that side of the equation. To use Brock's example: commercial trucks are heavily regulated and licensed - but I can still steal one and kill people. The same will always be true of guns.

As I said before, I am OK with a bump stock ban. I see no need for civilians to have access to fully automatic weapons or close approximations. I have no problem with background checks.

I would like to debate to focus on earlier intervention. Maybe give courts the power to temporarily hold someone who has raised red flags. Or at least start talking about it. I understand there are civil liberty issues involved.

I would also like to see some common sense steps taken to secure our schools without making them look like prisons. Let's let teachers who are willing to be trained have access to weapons to protect their students. Biometric safes seem like a possible solution.

I'd like to see more outreach. More mentoring. More of a non-governmental safety net. Churches do a lot of this. Don't write them off.
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Im a person of faith -but?

Reality focused and churches? Where mass shootings happen? What about malls, movie theaters, and sporting events?

I don't see churches doing anything right now.

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NorCalBrock said:
Im a person of faith -but?

Reality focused and churches? Where mass shootings happen? What about malls, movie theaters, and sporting events?

I don't see churches doing anything right now.

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A local church has become a financial donor to the local school system here.


There are also legitimate mentoring programs that don’t have the issues which seem to plague other sects.


I’m sure this will be ridiculed, but it doesn’t change the fact there has been a positive impact in our area.
 
hseII said:
A local church has become a financial donor to the local school system here.


There are also legitimate mentoring programs that don’t have the issues which seem to plague other sects.


I’m sure this will be ridiculed, but it doesn’t change the fact there has been a positive impact in our area.
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I'm all for local churches participating and assisting with social issues - my UU church does a lot of mentoring, social issue support with homelessness, single parents, and food banks and kitchens.

I also believe in separation of church and state - pony up their own money. Be out in front of gun violence - not behind it.

To think that they have even enough resources to make THE difference upon social issues is delusional.

Big problems are solved by government- which is just an extension of a civilized democracy.

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NorCalBrock said:
If a law or regulation is going to be broken by onlu the bad guys, why have any at all? It is a superfluous argument.
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It's a fair point. My answer is that laws should be reasonably crafted to prevent or discourage a specific societal ill. When people talk about gun-control, they don't really give a shit about guns. What they really mean is "murder control". Which is fine.

(This is a bad example, but...) Imagine a community is having a rash of smash and grab robberies. In an effort to stop them they outlaw hammers. I just don't believe the new law will work. Robbers will find other tools to smash with, or they'll risk being caught with a hammer since they were willing to risk the much more severe penalty associated with robbery.

Difference is hammers are not Constitutionally protected, and when talking about mass murder you know the perp generally doesn't care about the severity of the penalty. He's gamed it out, and to him the cost (potentially his life) is worth it.
 
NorCalBrock said:
I'm all for local churches participating and assisting with social issues - my UU church does a lot of mentoring, social issue support with homelessness, single parents, and food banks and kitchens.

I also believe in separation of church and state - pony up their own money. Be out in front of gun violence - not behind it.

To think that they have even enough resources to make THE difference upon social issues is delusional.

Big problems are solved by government- which is just an extension of a civilized democracy.

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Big Government is part of what got us to where we are today.

The VA is a prime example of that.

So is the fiasco that is Health Care.

Big Government can’t manage it’s own business.
 
Bucknut said:
It's a fair point. My answer is that laws should be reasonably crafted to prevent or discourage a specific societal ill. When people talk about gun-control, they don't really give a shit about guns. What they really mean is "murder control". Which is fine.

(This is a bad example, but...) Imagine a community is having a rash of smash and grab robberies. In an effort to stop them they outlaw hammers. I just don't believe the new law will work. Robbers will find other tools to smash with, or they'll risk being caught with a hammer since they were willing to risk the much more severe penalty associated with robbery.

Difference is hammers are not Constitutionally protected, and when talking about mass murder you know the perp generally doesn't care about the severity of the penalty. He's gamed it out, and to him the cost (potentially his life) is worth it.
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All case law upheld by the supreme court to date has set precedence for regulation.

When Ronald Regean and Bill Brady were shot - the Bradley bill was co-sponsored.

When Black Panthers were arming themselves, Ronald Regean pushed for assault weapons ban in CA.

The majority of the public does not own guns, let alone assault weapons.

These weapons have not always been readily available with such ease along with high-capacity magazines.

You might not agree - but the general public will move more and more toward assault weapons ban with every mass murder.

Do think even the military doesn't have gun regulation? Even after training, soldiers don't open cary. They even have mental health screenings before and during issuing a weapon. The CO at anytime can confiscate a soldier and restrict their access to weapons.

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hseII said:
Big Government is part of what got us to where we are today.

The VA is a prime example of that.

So is the fiasco that is Health Care.

Big Government can’t manage it’s own business.
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My dad is a vet and will take the VA healthcare over private any day.

Give me examples where our private healthcare system has been good.

What is this Big Government you speak of? We don't have government healthcare - we have private and partially private subsidized HC.

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Taxman just got almost 40% of my bonus check. Here's where it goes.

NASA was never close (but I wish it was...)
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This may or may not be up to date but entitlement programs get a huge chunk.
 
The reason it isn't right is because mandatory is what is already taken out of your check like SS. Discretionary is the federal % based on costs beyond

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It's like a business budget - I bring in x, and these are my costs...but if I want to spend beyond that (debt) that is discretionary

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