Trump allowed a gun sale Obama wouldn't

oakwilt

Well-Known Member
Enabled a mentally unstable kid to kill 17, wound 20. And today, asks for prayers to bandaid it well again?

Amerika. Putin puppet. Sex abuser. Liar in chief. But hey, Home Depot might hire more clerks next month!

"Ape in heels" is how the last President's family was portrayed by the christian right. They love this new guy though.
 

Bucknut

Well-Known Member
Oak, I'll bite. And I'll be civil.

This is as much Minnie Mouse's fault as Trump's. He enabled nothing. This was a sick kid with murder in his heart.

To me, Trump has it right. We need to fix the "why", not "how". Obviously, not easy. Maybe impossible. Our culture is rotting.

Laws won't fix it. We have laws against murder. He didn't care. He would've obtained a gun even if some new law tried to make it harder. Remember Adam Lanza from gun-strict Connecticut? (Did Obama enable him? Hint: no).

Each time this happens we hear the same thing: Self-righteous politicians grandstanding and demanding that action to be taken. And yet there is a deafening silence when someone asks them what specific action we should take. Sure longer waiting periods or more rigorous background checks make sense. Fine. But they will change nothing. If a criminal can't get a gun at a gun store he will get it somewhere else. Or he will find another efficient means of mass murder. For example, where do most kids go when there's a fire alarm at their school? The parking lot. In large numbers. Standing together. So what if Cruz had rented a large truck instead of buying a gun? Evil people will always find a way to be evil. But why are there so many evil people?

Short of repeal of the 2nd Amendment and TOTAL confiscation of ALL guns (never, ever happen), we have to focus on the intent instead of the tool.

So Oak, I feel as helpless as you do. Gotta fix the culture. More kids who know right from wrong. Kids who are taught to do the right thing even when they know no one is watching. For starters, more fathers would help. Shocking lack of fathers (as opposed to sperm donors) these days.

So what do you propose?
 

oakwilt

Well-Known Member
Well Bucknut, kudos to you and a very reasonable dialogue style you present. I'll certainly correspond and firstly, I am impacted like you, the state of viscious actions upon innocent people that's accelerating instead of passing past our collective witness.
There are definate political issues involved with blame or inaction on behalf of a populist concept, and also from parties who could've acted and prevented. The horror is shared by all.
I expect a hardy debate starting yet again in Washington, although this last shooting presents a freshly new series of loud..and important..voices; The children themselves. They experienced something far beyond our perception of the day. Forever. Trauma for the unexpecting generally impacts more than we who have seen. Repeatedly. In kids.
These kids have recently watched, and know what kind of political circus is existing now.
I also know the 2nd amendment well. All of them actually, had to swear to it once. Which means forever until I change that.
The next few days, and certainly the last 2, will bring a flood of growing, not "dying out concerns" because 18 school shootings occurred this year alone. This one's different.
The dividing rhetoric is massive (minus the Russian input this time). The debate is being stirred.
These kids, have a lot to say and no lying politician influenced by a fiscal outcome or a wickedly produced soundbite of misguided blame will effect what outcome these kids will doggedly stick to..the rest of their lives.
The liars will lie, the Russians continue to influence, and loudmouth AR-15 collectors because of hate and paranoia instead of reason and respect will never give-up their weapons and in all probability, will die by them.
Choices. We just have to look for, and find the truths..not hear them by known liars..of any party but for sure, this one's on yours.
I do not disrespect you for that. I too, welcome some thought.
These won't go away and believe me, there will be worse to come.
Thank you.
 

Bucknut

Well-Known Member
We just have to look for, and find the truths..not hear them by known liars..of any party but for sure, this one's on yours.
Just like Newtown was on yours? Of course not. It's not about parties. Or else: IMG_2295.jpg

Come on. We're better than this. At this point I flatly reject the idea that this issue is even remotely political. It's cultural. It's parental.

I say it's not political because I don't believe there is anything (literally) that politicians can do to stop it. Our elected saviors can't fix this for us. Only we can. We could turn every school into a supermax prison- killers will kill somewhere else.

Keep trading freedom for "security" and in a few decades we'd bear an uncomfortable resemblance to several countries we'd rather not be.

That said, I'm not opposed to measures being taken that would lessen the severity or duration of these school shootings. When we had terrorism on planes we hired armed Air Marshalls.
No one batted an eye. When we have terrorism at schools we not only ban guns, we post signs advertising the fact that "This is a gun free zone". :wtf:

Ever notice there are no mass shootings at police stations? Wonder why.

To reiterate: I share your frustration. But again, what do you propose to stop it?
 

oakwilt

Well-Known Member
The first thing we do is put mentally imbalanced people back on the do not sell list.
That is political because the law was rescended out of partisan literal hatred. The same hate that promoted Obama as Muslim. That kind of politic I know chickenshit lobbying efforts not only played along with but appears to be complicit to Foreign Enemy Invasion of our democratic process.
So yes. Let's cut the political shit because I highly disagree with the "details of the debate" on confiscation of our freedoms and guns? What's going on now and what's been done ain't going to be a legislative debate on retards buying AR-15s but laws being destroyed and hundreds of our kids being killed. Off of being racial and economic and culturally scared of the brown people? Because cop stations don't get robbed? That's one of your examples?
Again, lets drop the rhetoric of politic and humanize this discussion. The stakes are high yes? Or will america fall further yet because the talking points are fear and hate?
 

Jem4417

Well-Known Member
So I didn’t experience this era but didn’t kids just duke it out behind the school. Or the kid getting picked ons Dad told him to just punch that kid in the face when he messes with you. Now you get in a fight at school and the police get involved and you get criminal charges. The idea that kids in buildings by the thousand are all gonna get along is idiotic. If a kid is bullied and the only remedy is telling them walk the other way when their in an assigned seat doesn’t do shit. I’m not trying to promote violence but it’s unnatural for kids not to fight and when they never get it out and it gets all bottled up you get that one kid that says fuck it. I bring up this point because a 55 year old crew leader from my work whose been in the industry for 37 Years plainly stated to me when I brought up the shooting that “we would just beat the shit out of each other in the parking lot and nobody ever died”. That’s a bit extreme but the idea that these kids aren’t gonna fight is ridiculous. So my opinion is if you didn’t treat these kids like harsh murderers for a simple one on one scrap, the herd of kids would in turn find a balance.
 

hseII

Well-Known Member
Well Bucknut, kudos to you and a very reasonable dialogue style you present. I'll certainly correspond and firstly, I am impacted like you, the state of viscious actions upon innocent people that's accelerating instead of passing past our collective witness.
There are definate political issues involved with blame or inaction on behalf of a populist concept, and also from parties who could've acted and prevented. The horror is shared by all.
I expect a hardy debate starting yet again in Washington, although this last shooting presents a freshly new series of loud..and important..voices; The children themselves. They experienced something far beyond our perception of the day. Forever. Trauma for the unexpecting generally impacts more than we who have seen. Repeatedly. In kids.
These kids have recently watched, and know what kind of political circus is existing now.
I also know the 2nd amendment well. All of them actually, had to swear to it once. Which means forever until I change that.
The next few days, and certainly the last 2, will bring a flood of growing, not "dying out concerns" because 18 school shootings occurred this year alone. This one's different.
The dividing rhetoric is massive (minus the Russian input this time). The debate is being stirred.
These kids, have a lot to say and no lying politician influenced by a fiscal outcome or a wickedly produced soundbite of misguided blame will effect what outcome these kids will doggedly stick to..the rest of their lives.
The liars will lie, the Russians continue to influence, and loudmouth AR-15 collectors because of hate and paranoia instead of reason and respect will never give-up their weapons and in all probability, will die by them.
Choices. We just have to look for, and find the truths..not hear them by known liars..of any party but for sure, this one's on yours.
I do not disrespect you for that. I too, welcome some thought.
These won't go away and believe me, there will be worse to come.
Thank you.
Well into the 1980’s, firearms were in the rear windows of trucks, & in the trunks of cars, all across this wonderful Nation.

What’s Changed?

The People have Changed.

Children, & now young adults, have no respect for the Law, Adults, other people’s property, or Life.

Just like the guy with the rental truck a few weeks ago, people full of Hatred, Evilness, & otherwise twisted Mental Issues will find a way.

It’s already illegal to Kill People: laws didn’t stop any of those guys.

More Laws won’t fix this.

Holding people Accountable for their actions, teaching children from a young age to be Accountable for their actions, & holding People Responsible for their Actions is a much better direction.

Don’t Punish me for someone else not following the Rules, when I do.
 

hseII

Well-Known Member
So I didn’t experience this era but didn’t kids just duke it out behind the school. Or the kid getting picked ons Dad told him to just punch that kid in the face when he messes with you. Now you get in a fight at school and the police get involved and you get criminal charges. The idea that kids in buildings by the thousand are all gonna get along is idiotic. If a kid is bullied and the only remedy is telling them walk the other way when their in an assigned seat doesn’t do shit. I’m not trying to promote violence but it’s unnatural for kids not to fight and when they never get it out and it gets all bottled up you get that one kid that says fuck it. I bring up this point because a 55 year old crew leader from my work whose been in the industry for 37 Years plainly stated to me when I brought up the shooting that “we would just beat the shit out of each other in the parking lot and nobody ever died”. That’s a bit extreme but the idea that these kids aren’t gonna fight is ridiculous. So my opinion is if you didn’t treat these kids like harsh murderers for a simple one on one scrap, the herd of kids would in turn find a balance.
Exactly.

There needs to be a dirt lot at schools where kids can Air their differences & work thru them: 1 on 1, & unarmed.

There is a whole generation of Pansies due to the ignorance of the Liberal School Systems, & the Lack of Parenting.

There’s an even bigger Picture than that, but it seems some don’t want to hear that truth.
 

Bucknut

Well-Known Member
Well into the 1980’s, firearms were in the rear windows of trucks, & in the trunks of cars, all across this wonderful Nation.

What’s Changed?

The People have Changed.
Man, ain't that the truth. It's not Mayberry anymore.
 

Mangoes

Well-Known Member
Won’t discuss politics.

But this podcast and it’s discussion on evil and malevolence was a hard one to digest.....

Might add something to ruminate on.

 

JD3000

Most well-known member
My grandfather was taught to box at a pretty young age...by his priest at Catholic school. Different times but i agree that kids slugging it out may help but it seems that most of these shooters seems to be mentally disturbed outcasts that never got the help they needed much earlier in life. A fist fight or beat down isn't likely to help one bit. There's a lot to be said about parental involvement but it takes a village.
 
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oakwilt

Well-Known Member
"Liberal schools"
That painted and tainted post illustrates the divide. Knee-jerk and exactly why simple hateful minds did exactly what the Russians set out to do.
Going back to "what would you do?" I'd level the blame on trump's rescinding Obama's rule that retarded Americans not be allowed to purchase firearms.
 

southsoundtree

Well-Known Member
Folks Don’t Respect Shit anymore.

They weren’t raised right.
People have grown up in a world of tamper-evident packaging, since Tylenol-tampering, wars started on bogus-wmd info, a world with Gacy and Dahlmer, Grand Theft Auto, and guns on the covers off probably half the movies, and torture-porn movies like Saw.

It's more than upbringing.

It's what kind of upbringing, in what kind of culture.
 

hseII

Well-Known Member
People have grown up in a world of tamper-evident packaging, since Tylenol-tampering, wars started on bogus-wmd info, a world with Gacy and Dahlmer, Grand Theft Auto, and guns on the covers off probably half the movies, and torture-porn movies like Saw.

It's more than upbringing.

It's what kind of upbringing, in what kind of culture.
I believe that The Folks who gave us the trash you mentioned above grew up in the Atmosphere/Culture previously discussed.
 

oakwilt

Well-Known Member
Reading Cruz's internet posts this morning, all before his murderous rampage this week and dating back several years...
He hated blacks, Jews, liberals. A conservative in line with far-right dogma. Therein lies a very telling connection. Hate from fear. Making America great..again?
 

Bucknut

Well-Known Member
Going back to "what would you do?" I'd level the blame on trump's rescinding Obama's rule that retarded Americans not be allowed to purchase firearms.
Except Cruz isn't "retarded". He had apparently raised a few red flags for posting some idiotic stuff online, but I guess it wasn't enough to be actionable.

And again, respectfully, even if Obama's law was in effect and he had gone to a gun shop and been denied, he would've gotten a gun another way. They are not hard to find. Hell, even if we outlawed all gun manufacturing today, there are still something like 300 million guns in this country.

If it wasn't a gun it would've been a truck. Or a pressure cooker. Laws simply cannot stop evil. We have to find ways to stop creating it.
 

oakwilt

Well-Known Member
A quick look at other nations, their gun laws, mental health care, foreign policies, domestic crime rates and most telling, mass shootings with semi-auto or otherwise..a picture of us is pretty clear. Especially from deep inside a red state where policies enacted by a total red party up to and including school policies (teachers carry guns here, like Florida) are fully exposed now.
I know of no liberal who would sell an A-R or AK to a known nut case who's racial social/political views are out on the web. In fact, they legislated to restrict it, the conservative movement reversed it. Our leadership sees no problems indicating and promoting hate. It trickles down in the words and actions of Ronald Raygun himself.
 

JD3000

Most well-known member
A great problem is that many folks aren't going to get a proper diagnosis and treatment early on. Just another dumb, weird kid going through a lousy public school. Add foster care mishaps to the mix and it's a recipe for problematic kids at best and disaster at it's worst.
 

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