I'm an advocate for child labor!

Re: I\'m an advocate for child labor!

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Chainsaws and chippers combined with pre-teens ain't right. Shoot...they aren't good to have in some adults hands!

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Tom D, I just wanted to make sure I'm clear of the main issue of this thread.

Okay, there are people who strongly believe that a child/minor under no circumstances should ever operate a chipper and/or chainsaw.

On the flip-side, there are other people who strongly believe that a child/minor under certain circumstances can operate a chipper and/or chainsaw.
 
Re: I\'m an advocate for child labor!

Bixler...are you a parent? If so...the next time that you sit down to dinner with your family have them listen while you read the news report about the recent death. No preparation of the story...just have them listen. When you're done..again, you can NOT editorialize..ask them what they think about adolescents using machinery. Then, excuse yourself and let us know what they said. You have no other input about what they say other than reading the news report.

I'll be interested in what they say.

What are you saying? Seems like YOU are dodging a reply.

Is there a difference of opinion in this thread? Wellllll...is that a surprise?

Safety isn't a democracy...more along the lines of a benevolent dictatorship.

I don't speak for some people...I speak my own mind.

Bix...would you share your thoughts about children using chippers in light of the recent death? I think Zale already asked you to comment.
 
Re: I\'m an advocate for child labor!

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Bixler...are you a parent? If so...the next time that you sit down to dinner with your family have them listen while you read the news report about the recent death. No preparation of the story...just have them listen. When you're done..again, you can NOT editorialize..ask them what they think about adolescents using machinery. Then, excuse yourself and let us know what they said. You have no other input about what they say other than reading the news report.

I'll be interested in what they say.

What are you saying? Seems like YOU are dodging a reply.

Is there a difference of opinion in this thread? Wellllll...is that a surprise?

Safety isn't a democracy...more along the lines of a benevolent dictatorship.

I don't speak for some people...I speak my own mind.

Bix...would you share your thoughts about children using chippers in light of the recent death? I think Zale already asked you to comment.

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Tom, I have no children, and no I'm not dodging a reply. My position about a child using a chipper/chainsaw stands. I'll comment on the recent death if/when I feel like it, and it won't be in this thread, if that's alright.

But hey, I will play along with your hypothetical thought of me having children, and I'll do that for you, I'll see what they have to say about it at dinner and I'll let you know.
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Re: I\'m an advocate for child labor!

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Now I am no father, but I am a big teaching buff.
A great starting point to teach someone younger, with a fraction of the risk is having them use a cheap handsaw, or even a skilky to understand compression/tension along with some simple notching.
That being said, I understand what it's like being brought up on a farm, and using a chainsaw is a dangerous activity, but so is anything else in the country by comparison.

I don't see anything wrong with the little one dragging brush and learning the trade, as long as you own the property and there is no money involved, so exploitation can't be argued. (although cash under the table is another lesson I think should be valued haha)
I give you props for trying, this forum can be harsh when it comes to safety, but being a hands on dad deserves props in my books.

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woah woah woah, it's nice to know everyone hasn't jumped into the irrational/illogical boat! Thanks for posting ChrisOTS, it's nice to see that you "GET IT"
And just so all of the fear-mongerers know... (Mr. Jamoco, theX-MAN, Toparboring, love your posts Actree but you too, and of course Mr. ignorant Zale, swingdude u too, , even u Tom Dunlap... it is possible for a "9 yr. old" to rope, chip, saw, safely with supervision of course. Imagine that! I can, I've been there. And yes, this kid has been on the handsaw for years now, the father was present and aware of the chainsaw training.
... But no, we can all jump to conclusions that it's not possible to introduce a child to our dangerous profession safely, we can't even imagine it. This may lead to many children dying, insurance claims/RATES, and will not be tolerated! ANSI this OSHA that. YOU MUST BE OVER 18! Oh for christ teeth...

With all due respect...
I appreciate that fact that you all are big on safety, and don't get me wrong so am I, but I don't appreciate taking something positive and turning it over to C.P.S. cuz I don't have child size chaps or what not.

Imagine that, your nine year old could start the chipper, engage the clutch, and throw sticks in the hopper. Go-goo gaga!

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Still believe this?

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Oh... thanks Tom D, I see it. Sorry Zale (not that you've added any substance to the thread[ ya name caller]), here is your reply... Ready...

"Yep... I do still believe it"
 
Re: I\'m an advocate for child labor!

This thread started as a cute picture of Ratherbeclimbings little dude all dressed up and helping out - and now its turned into this! Wow!
I've seen plenty of 20-somethings that shouldn't be allowed to continue breeding their genes into society much less run a saw or be near a chipper!! And on the other hand, I've seen plenty of highschool aged "kids" that kids that can handle that responsibility and then some.
Would I let either one of my children (9-12)feed the chipper or run a saw? Not in this lifetime. The real question is how I would have answered that question 15 years ago before I had kids? I'm sure I would have said "hell yeah!" they gotta have some fun"! That being said - I just let my 9 yr old sit on my lap and drive down the road we live on - and we all know how dangerous driving is!!
 
Re: I\'m an advocate for child labor!

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The real question is how I would have answered that question 15 years ago before I had kids? I'm sure I would have said "hell yeah!" they gotta have some fun"!

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This is a great point... Asking someone who doesn't have kids is unfair... Opinions change as life changes.

This happened last year close to where I live:

http://www.wdtn.com/dpp/news/darke-county-teen-killed-in-bobcat-accident

I can't imagine being responsible for the death of a child... Sad stuff!
 
Re: I\'m an advocate for child labor!

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A friend of mine has a 9 year old son. He has been doing tree work with us since he was 5. Roping and chipping for years now and he just asked to use the 200t so I started training him with the saw. He started getting paid $1/day now he is up to $2/hr.

Intelligence is over rated... and work ethic is under rated. Start them young and retire early!!!

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Start them young and bury them young.

I was taught at 9 to use a small chainsaw under supervision.

But it was rare.

Anyone under the age of 14 or 15 does not likely have the body weight or judgement to use a powerful machine like a chipper or chainsaw.

heck, you can visualize a 6 year old, having some cool new gloves; then one glove comes off and is going with the brush into the chipper.... can't you see him jump up in the tray to get the glove, then going through the chipper?

Bixler, it's not even your own child!

Give a child a good work ethic by pulling weeds and raking leaves, not running a chipper or chainsaw that can kill a kid in a second.

When I was 13 to 16 years old, I picked watermellons, cantelope and pumpkins to get my own cash.

When I was 15 I was raking at my older brothers tree service.

When I was 16 I was chipping and using a chainsaw.

16 is way different than 5 to 9 years old.

5 to 9 year olds should be playing and doing small chores at home.

after all, it's the child years of playing that are the most memorable.

A kid shouldn't have their life at risk, simply because some jackass thinks they should learn how to work.

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X, I could have painted a more clear picture (i.e. more detail/description), but I thought I would exercise ya'lls imagination. Hey, it's been entertaining.

You say... "Anyone under the age of 14 or 15 does not likely have the body weight or judgement to use a powerful machine like a chipper or chainsaw."
I say... -I feel that every case is different and should be treated differently. I feel that "most" would make more sense than using the word "Anyone"

You say... "heck, you can visualize a 6 year old, having some cool new gloves; then one glove comes off and is going with the brush into the chipper.... can't you see him jump up in the tray to get the glove, then going through the chipper?"
--I say, -Yes I could see him jump up in the tray to get the glove, that's why personally I would be supervising (in my world that means, my hand on or with in inches from him) therefore able to grab his little , then take the time to explain to him why we don't do that.

You say... "Bixler, it's not even your own child!"
I say, -No sherlock. And your point is...?

You say, "Give a child a good work ethic by pulling weeds and raking leaves, not running a chipper or chainsaw that can kill a kid in a second."
I say, -he has his little sister pull the weeds and rake leaves now; and why don't you give your child a good work ethic however you want, and let me take responsibility and train mine or my friends who trust me how I want?

You then say, " When I was 13 to 16 years old, I picked watermellons, cantelope and pumpkins to get my own cash. When I was 15 I was raking at my older brothers tree service. When I was 16 I was chipping and using a chainsaw. 16 is way different than 5 to 9 years old.
5 to 9 year olds should be playing and doing small chores at home.
after all, it's the child years of playing that are the most memorable.
I say, -Thats all very cute, your lucky to start learning strong work ethic at such a young age. And OF COURSE 5-9 year olds should be playing and doing chores at home, these are such fun and memorable times.

You say, "A kid shouldn't have their life at risk, simply because some jackass thinks they should learn how to work."
I say, -Of course a child shouldn't have their life at risk, I hope you would never assume this particular child's life was at risk due to my actions of training in the name of learning how to work. Especially because I didn't go into any detail of how this training was done.

Ahhh... but no you will keep huffing and puffing... Im sorry you still don't "GET IT" but I can deal with you I have the patience. But I digress...


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Re: I\'m an advocate for child labor!

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The real question is how I would have answered that question 15 years ago before I had kids? I'm sure I would have said "hell yeah!" they gotta have some fun"!

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This is a great point... Asking someone who doesn't have kids is unfair... Opinions change as life changes.

This happened last year close to where I live:

http://www.wdtn.com/dpp/news/darke-county-teen-killed-in-bobcat-accident

I can't imagine being responsible for the death of a child... Sad stuff!

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So we are all clear... the QUESTION is: Would you let either one of your children (9-12)feed the chipper or run a saw?

Personally, I don't feel that the question is unfair to ask someone that doesn't have kids, just because of the fact they don't have kids. I say this because I feel that you don't need to have children to have a credible opinion on how you will raise them.
Although, I do agree that opinions CAN change as life changes.

And to the dad of the 9 year old who drove the car down the road, I'm sure you would have taken full responsibility if something were to go wrong, but I have the confidence in your ability to assure that nothing would go awry.

Time for dinner, I'll let you know what the little one's think of the story, Tom.
 
Re: I\'m an advocate for child labor!

I have never ran a chipper, so my post was not about that. My experience is all from chainsaw use. All I can say about that is I am glad that my Dad was not a scared Sissy, and taught me to be a man...like I said, not for everyone, or their kids. You can bet that if my kids show interest, they will learn to run chainsaws, and they will be better off for it, while other kids are playing video games...
 
Re: I\'m an advocate for child labor!

There seems to be the idea that if a person doesn't have kids then they have no business commenting on child rearing? What sort of twisted logic is that!?

I don't have kids but I have two wonderful nieces who are learning what was passed down from our Dad. Limitations aren't bad.

Getting kids outside to do work/play is always encouraged. Teaching them to swim by chucking them off the dock is not the right way to teach them. The 'Oops Factor' is much too big.

Bixler...my Dad told me about people with mouths like yours:

'But hey, I will play along with your hypothetical thought of me having children, and I'll do that for you, I'll see what they have to say about it at dinner and I'll let you know.

Leave that smart-mouth at the door. In another time you'd get a slap for saying smarmy things like that.

Dad said, 'Everyone likes a little a$$ but no one likes a smart a$$.
 
Re: I\'m an advocate for child labor!

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A friend of mine has a 9 year old son. He has been doing tree work with us since he was 5. Roping and chipping for years now and he just asked to use the 200t so I started training him with the saw. He started getting paid $1/day now he is up to $2/hr.

Intelligence is over rated... and work ethic is under rated. Start them young and retire early!!!

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Start them young and bury them young.

I was taught at 9 to use a small chainsaw under supervision.

But it was rare.

Anyone under the age of 14 or 15 does not likely have the body weight or judgement to use a powerful machine like a chipper or chainsaw.

heck, you can visualize a 6 year old, having some cool new gloves; then one glove comes off and is going with the brush into the chipper.... can't you see him jump up in the tray to get the glove, then going through the chipper?

Bixler, it's not even your own child!

Give a child a good work ethic by pulling weeds and raking leaves, not running a chipper or chainsaw that can kill a kid in a second.

When I was 13 to 16 years old, I picked watermellons, cantelope and pumpkins to get my own cash.

When I was 15 I was raking at my older brothers tree service.

When I was 16 I was chipping and using a chainsaw.

16 is way different than 5 to 9 years old.

5 to 9 year olds should be playing and doing small chores at home.

after all, it's the child years of playing that are the most memorable.

A kid shouldn't have their life at risk, simply because some jackass thinks they should learn how to work.

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X, I could have painted a more clear picture (i.e. more detail/description), but I thought I would exercise ya'lls imagination. Hey, it's been entertaining.

You say... "Anyone under the age of 14 or 15 does not likely have the body weight or judgement to use a powerful machine like a chipper or chainsaw."
I say... -I feel that every case is different and should be treated differently. I feel that "most" would make more sense than using the word "Anyone"

You say... "heck, you can visualize a 6 year old, having some cool new gloves; then one glove comes off and is going with the brush into the chipper.... can't you see him jump up in the tray to get the glove, then going through the chipper?"
--I say, -Yes I could see him jump up in the tray to get the glove, that's why personally I would be supervising (in my world that means, my hand on or with in inches from him) therefore able to grab his little , then take the time to explain to him why we don't do that.

You say... "Bixler, it's not even your own child!"
I say, -No sherlock. And your point is...?

You say, "Give a child a good work ethic by pulling weeds and raking leaves, not running a chipper or chainsaw that can kill a kid in a second."
I say, -he has his little sister pull the weeds and rake leaves now; and why don't you give your child a good work ethic however you want, and let me take responsibility and train mine or my friends who trust me how I want?

You then say, " When I was 13 to 16 years old, I picked watermellons, cantelope and pumpkins to get my own cash. When I was 15 I was raking at my older brothers tree service. When I was 16 I was chipping and using a chainsaw. 16 is way different than 5 to 9 years old.
5 to 9 year olds should be playing and doing small chores at home.
after all, it's the child years of playing that are the most memorable.
I say, -Thats all very cute, your lucky to start learning strong work ethic at such a young age. And OF COURSE 5-9 year olds should be playing and doing chores at home, these are such fun and memorable times.

You say, "A kid shouldn't have their life at risk, simply because some jackass thinks they should learn how to work."
I say, -Of course a child shouldn't have their life at risk, I hope you would never assume this particular child's life was at risk due to my actions of training in the name of learning how to work. Especially because I didn't go into any detail of how this training was done.

Ahhh... but no you will keep huffing and puffing... Im sorry you still don't "GET IT" but I can deal with you I have the patience. But I digress...


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Bixler,

Would a child that was 2 years old, be too young to run a chainsaw or feed brush into a chipper?

If not, would a 1 year old?

Is there an age that you would think was ridiculously young to run a chainsaw and chipper?

Well, that's how many of us reacted when you said you had your friends child working around a chipper, since the age of 5 years old to the now age of 9 (using chainsaw and chipper).
 
Re: I\'m an advocate for child labor!

and don't take the opposition personally and be stubborn.

the reason why many of us are speaking up, is to bring attention to this and to make you and others consider that this might be a bad thing to have young kids around these violent tools.

So, we are not out for YOUR blood. We just want to stop any future child's blood.

That being said, I will likely attack you for YOU in a future thread, I am sure.
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Because you seem like you are someone that I will tend to disagree with on many things. Oh, well....
 
Re: I\'m an advocate for child labor!

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I have never ran a chipper, so my post was not about that. My experience is all from chainsaw use. All I can say about that is I am glad that my Dad was not a scared Sissy, and taught me to be a man...like I said, not for everyone, or their kids. You can bet that if my kids show interest, they will learn to run chainsaws, and they will be better off for it, while other kids are playing video games...

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Cody I will now reply to you as I feel you are a sensible dude, you have rightly said " not for everyone " which I supremely agree with and have said so. I believe if someone showed me how to use a chainsaw at say 13 I would have been able to handle it in CERTAIN scenarios with supervision. I was not your average boy, my skills with power tools were pretty high ( school grades were damn good, would comprehend the dangers ) and we didn't have video games except ATARI ( space invaders and tennis YEAHHHHH, hated them ). I played outdoors. But as you said not for everyone. I think anything under 13 is a huge risk for most, and again I say no minors period but everyone has a choice. Let's hope it does not bite anyone who advocates this in the azz and end up regretting it. As we can see a father of a six year old has unfortunately come to understand this is a very tragic way, I would not like to be in his shoes tonight. Cody don't think for a minute that a chainsaw could not do the same thing. I never used a chainsaw before I became an adult and I would like to see the dude who would have called me a " sissy " at any stage of my life before 35. Just sayin..........
 
Re: I\'m an advocate for child labor!

Seems like some people have the "it wouldn't happen to me" kind of attitude which is an issue in itself and a surefire way to get hurt at some point. If this guy let his kid feed the chipper I am sure he had the same thoughts as you Bixler.
 
Re: I\'m an advocate for child labor!

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allowing a 9 year old child to get anywhere near any type of chipper or real chainsaw is all I need or want to know about you or your friends to determine that I want nothing more to do with you, other than strongly suggest you get professional help asap.
jomoco

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I totally agree. That is messed up!
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Oh no worries X, I don't take what you say personally. I know where you stand. I did notice you agreed with Mr. Jomoco of course without asking any other info or any questions. I thought that was pretty bold or stupid. Could this be my way of reaching out for that oh so needed professional help?

X, you say, "Well, that's how many of us reacted when you said you had your friends child working around a chipper, since the age of 5 years old to the now age of 9 (using chainsaw and chipper)."
I say, X it's your right to react however you choose. I'm not trying to change you, or the way you think. My initial post was deliberate, I was fishing for reactions.

... oh, X, and you say, "the reason why many of us are speaking up, is to bring attention to this and to make you and others consider that this might be a bad thing to have young kids around these violent tools."
I say, I would hope you, and many of you that are speaking up (I guess X is now speaking for the group), that yes I realize it "might" be a bad thing to have kids around such violent tools, but I also realize it "might" be a good thing.

X you say, "So, we are not out for YOUR blood. We just want to stop any future child's blood. That being said, I will likely attack you for YOU in a future thread, I am sure. Because you seem like you are someone that I will tend to disagree with on many things. Oh, well...."

I say... So here you are speaking for the group again, you seem to be a natural born leader. And I know your not out for MY blood, and I'm with you on stopping any future child's blood as well. X, I will likely defend your attack in that future thread you mentioned.
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Re: I\'m an advocate for child labor!

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There seems to be the idea that if a person doesn't have kids then they have no business commenting on child rearing? What sort of twisted logic is that!?

I don't have kids but I have two wonderful nieces who are learning what was passed down from our Dad. Limitations aren't bad.

Getting kids outside to do work/play is always encouraged. Teaching them to swim by chucking them off the dock is not the right way to teach them. The 'Oops Factor' is much too big.

Bixler...my Dad told me about people with mouths like yours:

'But hey, I will play along with your hypothetical thought of me having children, and I'll do that for you, I'll see what they have to say about it at dinner and I'll let you know.

Leave that smart-mouth at the door. In another time you'd get a slap for saying smarmy things like that.

Dad said, 'Everyone likes a little a$$ but no one likes a smart a$$.

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Tom D, I meant no disrespect in regards to any questions/comments I directed towards you. The reason I asked you the question... and I quote myself...

"Tom D, I just wanted to make sure I'm clear of the main issue of this thread.

Okay, there are people who strongly believe that a child/minor under no circumstances should ever operate a chipper and/or chainsaw.

On the flip-side, there are other people who strongly believe that a child/minor under certain circumstances can operate a chipper and/or chainsaw. "
... is because you made it clear where you stand on the issue, and I figured who better to clarify (and straighten out the thread) than you. I feel it was a legitimate question.

Tom D, I feel like you are a lucky man to have such a inspirational father growing up. You say for me to... "Leave that smart-mouth at the door. In another time you'd get a slap for saying smarmy things like that."
I say, I tend to turn into a smart a$$ when people force me into a hypothetical world. I feel one should have the freedom to say what they will, I'm sure your father told you that one may slap you back. Thank you.
 
Re: I\'m an advocate for child labor!

Its not my given or chosen role to clarify or straighten out threads. I state my position and thoughts.

Of course there are opposing views on anything. human nature
 
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