I'm an advocate for child labor!

Re: I\'m an advocate for child labor!

[ QUOTE ]
Now I am no father, but I am a big teaching buff.
A great starting point to teach someone younger, with a fraction of the risk is having them use a cheap handsaw, or even a skilky to understand compression/tension along with some simple notching.
That being said, I understand what it's like being brought up on a farm, and using a chainsaw is a dangerous activity, but so is anything else in the country by comparison.

I don't see anything wrong with the little one dragging brush and learning the trade, as long as you own the property and there is no money involved, so exploitation can't be argued. (although cash under the table is another lesson I think should be valued haha)
I give you props for trying, this forum can be harsh when it comes to safety, but being a hands on dad deserves props in my books.

[/ QUOTE ]


woah woah woah, it's nice to know everyone hasn't jumped into the irrational/illogical boat! Thanks for posting ChrisOTS, it's nice to see that you "GET IT"
And just so all of the fear-mongerers know... (Mr. Jamoco, theX-MAN, Toparboring, love your posts Actree but you too, and of course Mr. ignorant Zale, swingdude u too, , even u Tom Dunlap... it is possible for a "9 yr. old" to rope, chip, saw, safely with supervision of course. Imagine that! I can, I've been there. And yes, this kid has been on the handsaw for years now, the father was present and aware of the chainsaw training.
... But no, we can all jump to conclusions that it's not possible to introduce a child to our dangerous profession safely, we can't even imagine it. This may lead to many children dying, insurance claims/RATES, and will not be tolerated! ANSI this OSHA that. YOU MUST BE OVER 18! Oh for christ teeth...

With all due respect...
I appreciate that fact that you all are big on safety, and don't get me wrong so am I, but I don't appreciate taking something positive and turning it over to C.P.S. cuz I don't have child size chaps or what not.

Imagine that, your nine year old could start the chipper, engage the clutch, and throw sticks in the hopper. Go-goo gaga!

shocked.gif
 
Re: I\'m an advocate for child labor!

I did my first treework at 12 1/2. Marv cut the stuff and dropped it on the ground. His son and I would drag it to the street and whack off the limbs using SAndvik bow saws and stack the brush on the trailer. I'd used bow saws for years with Dad and in Boy Scouts.

Like John Mellencamp said:

Hold onto sixteen
Changes come around too soon
Make you women and men

Savor childhood...learn to work but don't work too soon.
 
Re: I\'m an advocate for child labor!

Bixler all I say to you on this matter is when you go to the delivery room and hold your first child in your arms and see how reliant he/she is on you, mark my words you will sing a different tune. Our children depend on us as parents to nurture them and keep them safe. Just a friendly thought, you are young and fearless but the day will come when you think differently ( I know it happened to me ). Just saying.............
 
Re: I\'m an advocate for child labor!

My Dad was a Timber Faller, and I grew up not wanting to do anything else. I used to hang out with him and listen to all his tips on chainsaw safety and got to fall my first tree when I was 6 (with Dad holding on to the saw with me of course). I acquired my very first chainsaw when I was nine, and used it to limb trees that my Dad would fall...all supervised. I worked hard and was able to purchase my first brand new saw when I was 12. I worked after school at a post and pole plant, and Weekends and Summers with my Dad in the woods. I started falling timber professionally, full time, when I was 17 (on paper I was 18). Because of this early experience I was able to hire on with Columbia Helicopters Inc when I was 18. Columbia was one of the biggest employers of Fallers in the mid 90's and required 5 years of professional timber falling experience. They decided to give me a try, and had I not had ALL of my early experience, I would not have made it. It had always been my dream to fall timber for a heli logging outfit and see the country...well, I lived my dream. I am thankful that there were not so many rules along with a bunch of judgmental, sissy la-la bedwetter types who just could not imagine letting a small child run a chainsaw, out there stopping me from having the opportunity to live my dream. Now before everybody gets puffed up...I do think there are a lot of kids and their adult teachers who have no business doing any of this, but until I see the kids' skills, or the adults teaching technique I will keep out of it, and respect that they are teaching their kids a valuable skill, rather than going along with the norm of society and sitting in front of the television. Too many jump on the judgmental bandwagon without stopping to think, that maybe that kid is not like yours, nor the person teaching him like you. I was an exception to most normal kids, and I am sure there are kids out there now that are like I was...here is 1 of my 4: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fD2R3na1lmE Let the bashing begin. Nuff said....
cool.gif
 
Re: I\'m an advocate for child labor!

@Bixler, I shared my opinion as a parent and my approach may have been wrong. Once again, IMO this is a subject that could go one of 2 ways no matter how it is presented. And, it will bring with it the strongest of opinions. I make as many mistakes as the next guy.
When I was 5-13 (before girls), I would climb any tree I could find and climbed them well. My only PPE at the time was a pair of sneakers. When I got my new smart phone, I gave it to my 7 year old son and asked him to teach me how to use it. Children adapt easy and often focus better on the task at hand better than adults.
I won't appologize for my opinion and I won't change it. But, I will admit I should have had a better approach.
 
Re: I\'m an advocate for child labor!

[ QUOTE ]
My Dad was a Timber Faller, and I grew up not wanting to do anything else. I used to hang out with him and listen to all his tips on chainsaw safety and got to fall my first tree when I was 6 (with Dad holding on to the saw with me of course). I acquired my very first chainsaw when I was nine, and used it to limb trees that my Dad would fall...all supervised. I worked hard and was able to purchase my first brand new saw when I was 12. I worked after school at a post and pole plant, and Weekends and Summers with my Dad in the woods. I started falling timber professionally, full time, when I was 17 (on paper I was 18). Because of this early experience I was able to hire on with Columbia Helicopters Inc when I was 18. Columbia was one of the biggest employers of Fallers in the mid 90's and required 5 years of professional timber falling experience. They decided to give me a try, and had I not had ALL of my early experience, I would not have made it. It had always been my dream to fall timber for a heli logging outfit and see the country...well, I lived my dream. I am thankful that there were not so many rules along with a bunch of judgmental, sissy la-la bedwetter types who just could not imagine letting a small child run a chainsaw, out there stopping me from having the opportunity to live my dream. Now before everybody gets puffed up...I do think there are a lot of kids and their adult teachers who have no business doing any of this, but until I see the kids' skills, or the adults teaching technique I will keep out of it, and respect that they are teaching their kids a valuable skill, rather than going along with the norm of society and sitting in front of the television. Too many jump on the judgmental bandwagon without stopping to think, that maybe that kid is not like yours, nor the person teaching him like you. I was an exception to most normal kids, and I am sure there are kids out there now that are like I was...here is 1 of my 4: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fD2R3na1lmE Let the bashing begin. Nuff said....
cool.gif


[/ QUOTE ]

Good on ya bro, I was working in the family drilling business swinging steel, sweeping and moping the shop, using small machines that were almost to dangerous for me. that learning and the work ethic instilled then has helped shape me into the man i am today. I have a sixteen year old apprentice that passes out flyers and drags brush from time to time at his dads request. on another note most young hispanic immigrants are way younger than they tell you when they apply for a job. found this out from a couple of guys i worked with a year or so ago for an extended time. In second and third world countries your a man at 13 or 14. less than a century ago in this country a boy started his apprenticeship to a trade at 9 or 10. last month had a young hungry dude come up and ask if he could rake and drag brush to the chipper for $20, i said no and told him to apply in a couple of years, but that go get'em he had is fantastic. personally held my first full time job at 12; i had the best nintendo games around. all summer all winter and everyday after school. so f__k a no work ethic, cry baby, whine all day about everything, nintendo dreaming, playtime at work mamas boy. Just sayen'
 
Re: I\'m an advocate for child labor!

@Tom, that should put it all to rest with this debate. It is a shame and sad that happened.
 
Re: I\'m an advocate for child labor!

[ QUOTE ]
A friend of mine has a 9 year old son. He has been doing tree work with us since he was 5. Roping and chipping for years now and he just asked to use the 200t so I started training him with the saw. He started getting paid $1/day now he is up to $2/hr.

Intelligence is over rated... and work ethic is under rated. Start them young and retire early!!!

[/ QUOTE ]

Start them young and bury them young.

I was taught at 9 to use a small chainsaw under supervision.

But it was rare.

Anyone under the age of 14 or 15 does not likely have the body weight or judgement to use a powerful machine like a chipper or chainsaw.

heck, you can visualize a 6 year old, having some cool new gloves; then one glove comes off and is going with the brush into the chipper.... can't you see him jump up in the tray to get the glove, then going through the chipper?

Bixler, it's not even your own child!

Give a child a good work ethic by pulling weeds and raking leaves, not running a chipper or chainsaw that can kill a kid in a second.

When I was 13 to 16 years old, I picked watermellons, cantelope and pumpkins to get my own cash.

When I was 15 I was raking at my older brothers tree service.

When I was 16 I was chipping and using a chainsaw.

16 is way different than 5 to 9 years old.

5 to 9 year olds should be playing and doing small chores at home.

after all, it's the child years of playing that are the most memorable.

A kid shouldn't have their life at risk, simply because some jackass thinks they should learn how to work.
 
Re: I\'m an advocate for child labor!

We're all familiar with " Risk vs. Reward". I think we can all agree that there is risk involved in operating chainsaws and chippers. I'm having trouble seeing the reward in allowing a nine year old to operate a chainsaw or chipper. What is there to be gained by this? Might as well go ahead and get him a helmet cam and let him shoot a crane removal video. What I do agree with is fathers teaching their children early. We all use different methods, but want the same results.
 
Re: I\'m an advocate for child labor!

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Now I am no father, but I am a big teaching buff.
A great starting point to teach someone younger, with a fraction of the risk is having them use a cheap handsaw, or even a skilky to understand compression/tension along with some simple notching.
That being said, I understand what it's like being brought up on a farm, and using a chainsaw is a dangerous activity, but so is anything else in the country by comparison.

I don't see anything wrong with the little one dragging brush and learning the trade, as long as you own the property and there is no money involved, so exploitation can't be argued. (although cash under the table is another lesson I think should be valued haha)
I give you props for trying, this forum can be harsh when it comes to safety, but being a hands on dad deserves props in my books.

[/ QUOTE ]


woah woah woah, it's nice to know everyone hasn't jumped into the irrational/illogical boat! Thanks for posting ChrisOTS, it's nice to see that you "GET IT"
And just so all of the fear-mongerers know... (Mr. Jamoco, theX-MAN, Toparboring, love your posts Actree but you too, and of course Mr. ignorant Zale, swingdude u too, , even u Tom Dunlap... it is possible for a "9 yr. old" to rope, chip, saw, safely with supervision of course. Imagine that! I can, I've been there. And yes, this kid has been on the handsaw for years now, the father was present and aware of the chainsaw training.
... But no, we can all jump to conclusions that it's not possible to introduce a child to our dangerous profession safely, we can't even imagine it. This may lead to many children dying, insurance claims/RATES, and will not be tolerated! ANSI this OSHA that. YOU MUST BE OVER 18! Oh for christ teeth...

With all due respect...
I appreciate that fact that you all are big on safety, and don't get me wrong so am I, but I don't appreciate taking something positive and turning it over to C.P.S. cuz I don't have child size chaps or what not.

Imagine that, your nine year old could start the chipper, engage the clutch, and throw sticks in the hopper. Go-goo gaga!

shocked.gif


[/ QUOTE ]


Still believe this?
 
Re: I\'m an advocate for child labor!

This would be a bad time for me to post photos of my son setting slings while flying on the crane when he was 8. (35 ft one pick spruces) I have to agree about chipping and sawing though. My dad had me on a lot of jobs as early as 3. My worst injury was a smashed finger ripping the nail right off age 5. Which isn't bad compared to my friends with 3 wheelers snapping bones. Saws and chippers are just much less forgiving. My condolences go out to the family in awakenings.
 
Re: I\'m an advocate for child labor!

I really like what Driver said it makes a lot of sense. I am no prude and was not raised to be soft, our culture here when I was growing up was about learning to do chores and help out around the house and maybe forge a good work ethic for adulthood. I agree that up north there might be a big difference being raised in a country setting as opposed to the city or suburbia. However I still feel tasks which call for dangerous tools should be left till the child gets to be at least sixteen where they understand the dangers and can comprehend training. Doing chores like mowing the lawn, pulling weeds, helping fix the roof ( again supervision needed as falling can be deadly ), painting etc seems ok. Planting vegetables for a kitchen garden and general cleaning I can see beneficial to a child's rearing. Look I did lots of work with drills, hammers and saws etc when I was 13 upwards but I was mature and very strong I just don't think it is for everyone and we need to protect our children that is the main concern. They need supervision constantly and it's our responsibility as they have been entrusted in our care till they become adults.
 
Re: I\'m an advocate for child labor!

Yesterday I talked with my brother about the child being killed. WE talked about how our folks got us involved in chores that were age appropriate. As we got older the jobs were more difficult. Mowing the lawn wasn't on my list until I was probably nine or so. by 13 I was doing yard work and house chores for hire to family friends. At 12 I helped my neighbor with treework...using a bow saw.

Dad started us out in the shop with hammers and nails. Jim's done the same with his girls. Something they've done since forever is cook together. The girls would plan and prep as much as they could. Cutting things with knives...not until they were old enough. Frying things, spattering oil...age appropriate. They learned that they have to be part of chores and when they could handle more dangerous parts they were allowed. Incrementally.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

New threads New posts

Back
Top Bottom