Grassroots for Bernie Sanders 2016

[Chris Wayne]

BRT, it's nice to see someone who values liberty over security.

I haven't done much tree work since I moved from the people's republic of Connecticut to Colorado Springs. I'm working on getting my Hitchhiker dialed in.

Thanks,
Chris

 

[easyphloem]

You lib evolutionists believe that we are animals.
.

You won the internet with that insult.

SZ

 

[TC]

what about this Easy P?

 

[easyphloem]

what about this Easy P?

Not a tune I would like to hear over and over, but I agree with parts of it. Other parts, not so much.

In full disclosure, I have never registered as a D, always been Independent. I see the hypocrisy across the political spectrum. I've voted for individual candidates of the two major parties, mostly democrats, in fairness.

If this election comes down to Hillary vs Republican candidate (?), I'd have a hard time voting for another Clinton in the white house. I feel strongly about keeping the Bush family as far away from the white house as possible. Thank God Jeb! has no chance of winning the nomination.

SZ

 

[Chris Wayne]

Income inequality seems to be a big issue for the left these days. One of the ways Bernie intends to deal with it is to increase the minimum wage to $15hr. Why not $100hr? Can we try a thought experiment? Examples help me conceptualize:

You are tired of working for the man, so you head out on your own and start your own tree service business. You work by yourself for a while. Once you start getting more difficult jobs you think wouldn't it be nice if I had a guy(or gal) that could help me with the rigging. Maybe someone who could untie the branches, send me back the rope, drag the debris out of the drop zone, maybe move the trailer... just the minimum. Now, because you have done your homework, you understand all your expenses(equipment, insurance, etc..) so you determine for $7.50 an hour you can hire Joe, So you do. Joe can untie a knot, he can send you back your bull rope, and he can usually move the trailer without damaging something. He can do the minimum but he's usually on his cell phone, taking smoke breaks, and eating.

You try to teach Joe how to use a chainsaw but he keeps running it into the dirt. You try to teach Joe to tie knots but it doesn't take. You try to teach Joe how to let pieces run but he doesn't get it and he's going to get you killed. After 2 months of frustration with Joe you feel he isn't even worth the $7.50 an hour you budgeted. You decide to keep him because at least he can untie a knot and you would rather not be working alone and he makes you laugh sometimes. Business is picking up and you find Bob. Bob is amazing. He can run a chainsaw without putting it in the dirt. He looks up when you are cutting. In his spare time, you find out he's been reading "Tree Climbers Companion", "Fundamentals of Tree Work", this website. He's eager to learn. After 1 month you bump him up to $10hr because he's making you money.

Then Bernie gets elected President and increases the minimum wage to $15hr.

Here is my question:

Does increasing the minimum wage increase Joe's value to your company?
Are you gonna keep him?

Thanks,
Chris

 

[macswan]

Income inequality seems to be a big issue for the left these days. One of the ways Bernie intends to deal with it is to increase the minimum wage to $15hr. Why not $100hr? Can we try a thought experiment? Examples help me conceptualize:

You are tired of working for the man, so you head out on your own and start your own tree service business. You work by yourself for a while. Once you start getting more difficult jobs you think wouldn't it be nice if I had a guy(or gal) that could help me with the rigging. Maybe someone who could untie the branches, send me back the rope, drag the debris out of the drop zone, maybe move the trailer... just the minimum. Now, because you have done your homework, you understand all your expenses(equipment, insurance, etc..) so you determine for $7.50 an hour you can hire Joe, So you do. Joe can untie a knot, he can send you back your bull rope, and he can usually move the trailer without damaging something. He can do the minimum but he's usually on his cell phone, taking smoke breaks, and eating.

You try to teach Joe how to use a chainsaw but he keeps running it into the dirt. You try to teach Joe to tie knots but it doesn't take. You try to teach Joe how to let pieces run but he doesn't get it and he's going to get you killed. After 2 months of frustration with Joe you feel he isn't even worth the $7.50 an hour you budgeted. You decide to keep him because at least he can untie a knot and you would rather not be working alone and he makes you laugh sometimes. Business is picking up and you find Bob. Bob is amazing. He can run a chainsaw without putting it in the dirt. He looks up when you are cutting. In his spare time, you find out he's been reading "Tree Climbers Companion", "Fundamentals of Tree Work", this website. He's eager to learn. After 1 month you bump him up to $10hr because he's making you money.

Then Bernie gets elected President and increases the minimum wage to $15hr.

Here is my question:

Does increasing the minimum wage increase Joe's value to your company?
Are you gonna keep him?

Thanks,
Chris

If I am paying Joe $7.50 an hr for tree work I am the bad guy in that story

 

[macswan]

Errr.... I thought $15 was the minimum for tree work?

I started at $11

 

[Chris Wayne]

Errr.... I thought $15 was the minimum for tree work?

Really? You guys are a lot younger. My first real job was $2.30 an hour. I worked at a golf course in high school, cutting grass, tees, aprons, raking sand traps etc.. Sorry if the numbers are too low! Really all Joe wants to do is untie knots.

 

[Chris Wayne]

If I am paying Joe $7.50 an hr for tree work I am the bad guy in that story

You are very generous!

 

[BRT]

Errr.... I thought $15 was the minimum for tree work?

If I am paying Joe $7.50 an hr for tree work I am the bad guy in that story

I started at $11

$12.50 for me... in these parts $20 is the lowest liveable wage...

Chris,
You drew an excellent analogy! Here's how this works--these 2 guys know precisely what you're talking about.

It wouldn't matter where you started the incomes out, the point is that one employee is worth far more than the other. And the first isn't worth the arbitrary minimum wage.

Instead of following your logic, Mac and Levi would rather play dumb; and for some, unfortunately, that is an easy act to pull off.

Ask them both if they run their own business. It starts to make sense then.

Dave

 

[macswan]

boy I bet you're fun to work for

 

[frashdog]

When I was in younger I watched Democracy Now almost daily. I read Chomsky and Zinn and Thoreau and and and....

Then there was Bush v Kerry. A total fraud in everyone's face. I haven't really paid attention to politics since then. Patriot Act, holy crap.

Our government is such a sham it's hard too believe, it is so corrupt it is a joke.

This thread, and others, show that the slight of hand works wonders. By polarizing the nation we fight amongst ourselves while the overlords have their way with us with little to no resistance.

Fundamentally we all want the same thing. Food, shelter, justice, freedom, on and on and on. Only we are tricked into thinking that the "liberal" or "republican" is the enemy when really there is no difference. We are against the family down the street who votes the "wrong" way or the immigrant who really only wants what we do. They (the overlords) will continue to have their way with us until the proles unite, which may never happen as long as Mac D's and Walmart stay open and the juice keeps flowing people are more or less content in the consumer orgy and care naught for leaving their warm den of plastic and corn syrup, into the desert of the real (great book by the way)

Levi knows what's up..the steam from the heap shit over flowing from the crock we call democracy.

I pray the Bern is real..just can't buy it after Nader. Just another pacifier for the hippies. Like Nader... probably already to loose to another Bush.

 

[BRT]

boy I bet you're fun to work for

You could make some good money on that bet.

I came home from work the day before Thanksgiving. Big Costco pecan pie setting on the dining room table. I asked my wife, "Where'd that come from?" She said, "Ray down the street brought it by. Said he just wanted to show you how much he appreciated the work you gave him."

I employed Ray on several jobs after Obamacare crowded him out of his regular job. He and his wife and son spent months without regular work. He's now employed by the shipyard here in Norfolk making good money.

Your boss ever engender that sort of treatment from you Mac?

 

[BRT]

Who are you voting for man, who's gonna get your country back? Trump? All he cares about is the best way to make money

It's not just my country Mac. I realize you simply pop in and out of this thread without digesting the information. But, I'll post the numbers once more:

--....a poll by the AP found that only 42 percent of Americans support same sex marriage. (July 21, 2015)
--Poll: 85 Percent of Americans Support Requiring a Balanced Federal Budget (March 22, 2013)
--Gallup Poll: 55% of Americans Want All or Most Abortions Made Illegal (May 29, 2015)
--Rasmussen--59% of Likely U.S. Voters consider reducing the cost of health care more important than making sure everyone has health insurance which is the goal of Obamacare.
--Some 54% of total respondents said they oppose taking in refugees, according to a new poll from the Washington Post and ABC News
--Gallup polling about blanket amnesty for illegal immigrants more generally finds the public widely unsympathetic to this proposal, with only 6% supporting it.

 

[macswan]

It's not just my country Mac. I realize you simply pop in and out of this thread without digesting the information. But, I'll post the numbers once more:

--....a poll by the AP found that only 42 percent of Americans support same sex marriage. (July 21, 2015)
--Poll: 85 Percent of Americans Support Requiring a Balanced Federal Budget (March 22, 2013)
--Gallup Poll: 55% of Americans Want All or Most Abortions Made Illegal (May 29, 2015)
--Rasmussen--59% of Likely U.S. Voters consider reducing the cost of health care more important than making sure everyone has health insurance which is the goal of Obamacare.
--Some 54% of total respondents said they oppose taking in refugees, according to a new poll from the Washington Post and ABC News
--Gallup polling about blanket amnesty for illegal immigrants more generally finds the public widely unsympathetic to this proposal, with only 6% supporting it.

You realize this thread is called grassroots for Bernie sanders right? Not Fox News. You are not swaying anybody here, just showing your ass.

I wonder, if Gallup polled in the fifties and sixties, what the numbers would be for support of civil rights. Not a lot of popular support there for a time. Anyone ever been a part of one of those polls? I sure as shit haven't. They could be making up numbers, and we would never fucking know.

 

[treegongfu]

--....a poll by the AP found that only 42 percent of Americans support same sex marriage. (July 21, 2015)

Dayum, just when i thought we were going to do a small government war against russia for infringing on homosexual rights.

 

[BRT]

You realize this thread is called grassroots for Bernie sanders right? Not Fox News. You are not swaying anybody here, just showing your ass.

I wonder, if Gallup polled in the fifties and sixties, what the numbers would be for support of civil rights. Not a lot of popular support there for a time. Anyone ever been a part of one of those polls? I sure as shit haven't. They could be making up numbers, and we would never fucking know.

This has come up several times. Are you guys that worried that I will "sway" somebody? Smacks of defensiveness if you ask me.

Oh, wait, you're just looking out for my wellbeing; don't want me to embarrass myself by "showing my ass". Thanks for the concern.

You've got a pretty quick tongue, Mac. Why are you so slow to answer this question that has been asked many pages ago, and on two separate occasions? Did you think the rest of us did not notice?

Tell me, how are the public schools in Vermont?

Mac?

 

[BRT]

Dayum, just when i thought we were going to do a small government war against russia for infringing on homosexual rights.

Bernie wants to be like Europe in the worst way. They're about 5 minutes from allowing Sharia Law to govern their land. Are you a learned man? Know what that means?

 

[Treetopflyer]

This has come up several times. Are you guys that worried that I will "sway" somebody? Smacks of defensiveness if you ask me.

I'm not worried at all.
Here I'll post this in hopes you may actually watch it and respond .. In the past you haven't impress ed me to sway shit.

 

[macswan]

This has come up several times. Are you guys that worried that I will "sway" somebody? Smacks of defensiveness if you ask me.

Oh, wait, you're just looking out for my wellbeing; don't want me to embarrass myself by "showing my ass". Thanks for the concern.

You've got a pretty quick tongue, Mac. Why are you so slow to answer this question that has been asked many pages ago, and on two separate occasions? Did you think the rest of us did not notice?

Ooohhhh, you got me! Real sharp tack.

I missed that, what do you mean by the rest of you didn't notice.

my kids go to a private school, real new age feel goodery. Public schools are probably going to be looking a damn sight better with no child left behind falling to the wayside. I am not a fan of standardized tests. They are pretty good up here nothing like the shit I dealt with growing up in the south