drop a 75' tree in a 50' LZ

Re: always so sure of what can\'t be done you are

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How about this for a question..

Does anyone reading this thread know of anyone that was ever hurt when falling a tree from the ground, where that tree did not hit something on the way down, or barberchair?



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Ya, I smashed my big toe taking out a lead that was alot taller than the distance I had to the ground. It was a pine. The hinge didnt break off the way I wanted it to. Probaly too wide of a hinge or more likely, I backed out too son. Anyhow, the end of the branch hit the ground and did some crazy force multiplying reverberation back up to the cut. It slammed into the crotch where my foot was and pretty much destroyed my Big toe.

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That's a bummer bro... and a warning to all.. stay safe. sorry to hear that...

and the question was regarding falling trees from the ground, not falling tops..
 
\"why must I always explain\" Van Morrison

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where that tree did not hit something on the way down, or barberchair?


Did you not read what Daniel wrote?

"...there is no way it can kick back off the stump....", meaning your theory is shot out of the water.

SZ

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Unless it hits another tree or building or hill on the way down.. there has to be something there to stop the forward motion of the tree.. only when it stops will gravity push down and back on the butt...

"things people are too lazy to know"
 
Re: \"why must I always explain\" Van Morrison

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Unless it hits another tree or building or hill on the way down.. there has to be something there to stop the forward motion of the tree.. only when it stops will gravity push down and back on the butt...

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It doesn't have to hit something if it barberchairs.

If the wood peels and stalls the fall the top could hit the ground first causing the butt to come back at you when taking big tops.
It can happen and that's reason enough not to do it.
Just because it hasn't happened to you yet doesn't mean it won't.
 
Re: \"why must I always explain\" Van Morrison

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Unless it hits another tree or building or hill on the way down.. there has to be something there to stop the forward motion of the tree.. only when it stops will gravity push down and back on the butt...

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It doesn't have to hit something if it barberchairs.

If the wood peels and stalls the fall the top could hit the ground first causing the butt to come back at you when taking big tops.
It can happen and that's reason enough not to do it.
Just because it hasn't happened to you yet doesn't mean it won't.

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There is something fundamental that you need to understand about Daniel: He uses the gunning lines on his saw to direct the perfect notch, every time. There is NO WAY that he could ever make an error that would result in a barberchair. Maybe it could happen to someone else without centuries of felling experience, or one of those foolish loggers, but not him.

The word to describe his skills is "infallible".


SZ
 
Re: drop a 75\' tree in a 50\' LZ

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A very experienced climber here in MN went up a short distance to drop a huge top. I'm not sure of the spar to top ratio. Tips hit first and the butt broke his leg very badly. That was about 9 months ago, I'm not sure if he is walking again, yet.

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Guys name is Tony Sackett and I don't think he'd mind attaching his name to this thread. Some of you might have met him, I think he's won the MNTCC a couple of times.



Daniel has no intentions of giving in folks, might just as well digest that.
 
Re: drop a 75\' tree in a 50\' LZ

I've followed this thread irregularly so I don't have a continuous memory of what has been said. There is NO way that I'm going to sort it out either.

There are lots of tricks that a good climber will have learned either by experimenting or from other climbers. Most of those tricks won't be used regularly because there are better ways to do the work. A judgement of something being 'better' starts with safer.

This technique sure has a lot of hazards and risks associated with it. This is one of the tricks that is only used when other methods have been eliminated. But, safety always is a deal breaker.

In order to ever consider using a trick like this there would have to be NO other way to make the cut. It's just too danged dangerous! Too many variables have to be controlled. Too many things have to go JUST right or there will be injury/death or damage.

Some tricks stay in the bottom of the trick bag for good reason...they are too tricky.
 
Re: drop a 75\' tree in a 50\' LZ

That sucks... big time... and just like Jesse told, he'd tell you himslef, he made a bad cut... tough way to learn a lesson... and no doubt after something like that happens to you, you won't be inclined to try it again..

The climber that was fumbling around in the video that got removed has won the Penn-del speed climb and the rescue and maybe footlocking and been to the masters challenge.. He's a pruning specialist.. not a takedown guy... There are plenty of highly experienced climbers that make bad cuts all day long.. No disrespect intended. Even Big Jon was bypassing his face cuts occasionally when I met him.

Kevin makes a good point.. if the corner(s) hold and tear, that could cause the butt to come back at the climber... that can be prevented by undercutting the corners.
 
Re: drop a 75\' tree in a 50\' LZ

Hey Daniel, I admitted to making a bad cut or more likely backing out too early, but in my opinion, that was the 2nd mistake I made. Taking the limb in one peice instead of climbing out and doing it in sections shorter than the distance to the earth was my 1st. No disrespect intended here.
 
Re: drop a 75\' tree in a 50\' LZ

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I've followed this thread irregularly so I don't have a continuous memory of what has been said. There is NO way that I'm going to sort it out either.

There are lots of tricks that a good climber will have learned either by experimenting or from other climbers. Most of those tricks won't be used regularly because there are better ways to do the work. A judgement of something being 'better' starts with safer.

This technique sure has a lot of hazards and risks associated with it. This is one of the tricks that is only used when other methods have been eliminated. But, safety always is a deal breaker.

In order to ever consider using a trick like this there would have to be NO other way to make the cut. It's just too danged dangerous! Too many variables have to be controlled. Too many things have to go JUST right or there will be injury/death or damage.



Some tricks stay in the bottom of the trick bag for good reason...they are too tricky.

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words to live by my brother...
 
low release cut?

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if a picture's worth a thousand words are two pictures worth 2,000?

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Daniel,

I can't figure out why you are using such a low backstrap release cut. How come?
 
Re: low release cut?

Good question..

I hit metal on the plunge, so I wanted to get the cut as low as possible to get under the metal without leaving so much of a step as to cause the butt to hang up on the front of the stick and possibly cause the tip to over rotate and come down early..

Other wise I would have gone with a standard back release..

The other big live tulip top in the video that was cut at about 45' was mighty hollow at the base, I plunged that too and just left a little wood on the back strap before making the final release cut.. Only a few secinds of cutting before it let go.. that was a standard back release..
 
Re: deaf ears?

in the first clip of the video montage and this picture i did notice you managed to save a nice row of rhododendron by spurring up 10 to fell a tall oak. was the this the justification for the spar cut? i've always felt rhododendron were replaceable... and it seemed there was nothing preventing the tree from being felled just a bit more to the right where the yard seemed open grass - but i wasnt there...

it does seem from the thread that you prefer this method over felling at ground level - just wondering why?

matthew
 
Re: deaf ears?

There was a tight drop zone between the beech, that lost a limb, and a little dogwood.. you have to look very closely at the first (wide angle) drop to see the dogwood, directly behind the beech.. the beech last one limb anyhow.. the tree was mighty wide, though it looked like it might fit with a perfect notch and backcut.. the porch was a limiting factor. it was going to make a low cut hard to get at...
I wasn't worried about the shrubs.. was mostly concerned with the possability of the butt kicking back into the porch..
 
Re: drop a 75\' tree in a 50\' LZ

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The climber that was fumbling around in the video that got removed has won the Penn-del speed climb and the rescue and maybe footlocking and been to the masters challenge.. He's a pruning specialist.. not a takedown guy... There are plenty of highly experienced climbers that make bad cuts all day long.. No disrespect intended. Even Big Jon was bypassing his face cuts occasionally when I met him.


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No disrespect intended? You could have refrained from using the phrase "fumbling around" if you did not intend to disrespect.


SZ
 
Re: drop a 75\' tree in a 50\' LZ

"I enjoy your hubris, it is the only thing on the buzz that gives me pleasure to read, now that Holly is out of the mix. At least he kept it real. "


So...is that a tear shed for Holly not being around? Are you missing him that much?
 
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