drop a 75' tree in a 50' LZ

Re: drop a 75\' tree in a 50\' LZ

Not saying its not dangerous. Not saying is 100% safe. The tree I took down today, it worked for. I wouldnt do this to fit a 75 foot tree into a 50 foot hole. I actually dought I will use it again. The picture attached is the stump cut, and the reason I even went up the tree to fell it. The hinge sid of the tree was pretty much rotted. I needed to get to a point where there was sound wood to hinge it.
The difference is where you cut the tree from. You tie into the top of the tree when you drop a top out right? The only difference here is the size of the wood.
I will also try to figure out how to get a couple videos up.
I dont want to argue, I tried it, it worked for my tree, it just needs to fit the tree you are working on. Just like everything else we do. If it fits try it.
 

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Re: drop a 75\' tree in a 50\' LZ

[ QUOTE ]
You tie into the top of the tree when you drop a top out right? The only difference here is the size of the wood.

[/ QUOTE ]

Seriously?
You tie in when taking out a top because your biggest hazard is FALLING. When tying in 10 feet up a tree to fell it your biggest hazard is getting SQUASHED!!
What is the first thing anyone learns about felling trees? - Have-An-Escape-Route.
Or several!
Tying into the stump at or near ground level is suicide. If you don't get pancaked you're just lucky.

Knocking out a top and felling also exert VERY different forces on the stem. Sorry but that is not a good analogy.

Would you fell a tree on a ladder? On scaffolding? Standing on a chair?!?

I hope I don't sound confrontational. I was impressed with the video for sure, I just can't get behind the method...
 
Re: drop a 75\' tree in a 50\' LZ

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
You tie into the top of the tree when you drop a top out right? The only difference here is the size of the wood.

[/ QUOTE ]

Seriously?
You tie in when taking out a top because your biggest hazard is FALLING. When tying in 10 feet up a tree to fell it your biggest hazard is getting SQUASHED!!
What is the first thing anyone learns about felling trees? - Have-An-Escape-Route.
Or several!
Tying into the stump at or near ground level is suicide. If you don't get pancaked you're just lucky.

Knocking out a top and felling also exert VERY different forces on the stem. Sorry but that is not a good analogy.

Would you fell a tree on a ladder? On scaffolding? Standing on a chair?!?

I hope I don't sound confrontational. I was impressed with the video for sure, I just can't get behind the method...

[/ QUOTE ]
I am not saying that this method is the best way to do things. I am just saying it is an option. If your biggest hazard is being squashed then the forces on the stem dont really have alot to do with it. You have the same chance of getting squashed at the top as you do low. Just different size wood.
When you fell a top do you make absolutely sure that the top is going to go where you want it to. Its the same thing at ground level. Make absolutely sure its going to go where you want it to. You dont have an escape route in the top. The one difference I do see is if the top wacks you your ground guy has to climb farther to get you down
frown.gif
.
Ive said it several times this is not for every tree. The only time I will EVER use it is to get above a decayed hinge area, not trying to show off and get a 50 foot top in a 52 foot opening (that Matt is EGO).
For a small co like mine, I cant afford to bring in a crane every time I see a tree like this one. When I know that I can do it with the equipment that I have.
This is my attempt at the helmet cam.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PHAieVKpqZo

I hope I don't sound confrontational. I dont want to be. Spirited conversation solves lots of problems.
 
Re: drop a 75\' tree in a 50\' LZ

I guess I see being tied in up top as being an escape route unto itself - you cut out the piece and gravity takes it away from you, rather than on the ground it's the other way around: the escape route is you getting away from gravity dragging the tree over.

I have just seen too many big stems and limbs bouncing back at workers after they've hit the ground. A whole tree just seems like a lot more material to come crashing back towards you...

I was on a course once that explained the "90-15-5" rule:
ie: 90% of all felling accidents happen within the first 15 seconds of felling and within 5 feet of the trunk.

My concern with this method is how you can be certain that the tree does not bounce back into that 5 foot mark, especially with no escape route.
 
Re: drop a 75\' tree in a 50\' LZ

Nice job squirrel..

Nothin' so hard about that eh?

Robi..
Your 90-15-5 rule is for logging.. people that know how to cut trees don't often get hurt when falling trees that don't hit anything on their way to the ground.. A much different game than logging...

If me saying I can do it, means I've got a big ego.. then I guess mine's huge..

Its really no big deal though, as squirrel just showed us...

No point in arguing this any farther huh?
 
Re: drop a 75\' tree in a 50\' LZ

[ QUOTE ]


Robi..
Your 90-15-5 rule is for logging.. people that know how to cut trees don't often get hurt when falling trees that don't hit anything on their way to the ground.. A much different game than logging...


[/ QUOTE ]



That statement is ludicrous.


SZ
 
always so sure of what can\'t be done you are

Apparently nothing is settled..
Please elaborate SZ... because I didn't just make that up.. That is pretty much a direct quote from John Ball, PhD. the world's foremost expert on tree work related fatalities.. Its not the faller that gets killed in tree work , its who he drops the tree on..I have it on tape. Logging of course is not the same...

So if you know something that John Ball doesn't... what is it? How does an arborist get hurt by falling a tree?



[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]


Robi..
Your 90-15-5 rule is for logging.. people that know how to cut trees don't often get hurt when falling trees that don't hit anything on their way to the ground.. A much different game than logging...


[/ QUOTE ]



That statement is ludicrous.


SZ

[/ QUOTE ]
 
Re: always so sure of what can\'t be done you are

You are right Daniel.

I don't see anything wrong with dropping huge tops from 10 feet up a tree. As long as someone is as confident as you are with felling skills, there is NO WAY anyone will get hurt, especially the feller.

I'm sure that Dr. Ball would support your interpretation of his data. Only people who don't know what they are doing are in danger of getting hurt or killed.


SZ
 
Re: always so sure of what can\'t be done you are

How about this for a question..

Does anyone reading this thread know of anyone that was ever hurt when falling a tree from the ground, where that tree did not hit something on the way down, or barberchair?

If you know how to set up a plunge cut with back release, you should be able to effectively avoid barberchair... If a tree doesn't hit something on the way down, there is no way it can kick back off the stump, until it hits something, (like a steep hill)... also if it hits nothing on the way down there is no way to get a limb thrown back at you.. the only way to get hurt as a faller in the above scenario is if something were to break out of the tree before or as it falls, or if the tree goes the wrong way..

Do you want to have an intelligent conversation here or just go on acting sarcastic?
 
Re: always so sure of what can\'t be done you are

[ QUOTE ]


Do you want to have an intelligent conversation here or just go on acting sarcastic?

[/ QUOTE ]


Sarcasm is the lowest form of wit, and it is something I take very seriously.

Yes, I am being sarcastic. No, I do not want to have an intelligent conversation here, you should know that by now.

My point is that your hubris is something that can and possibly will come back to bite you. Not wishing any harm on you, not at all. You seem like a very sincere dude, albeit overly confident in your ability to avoid unforeseen circumstances.

Keep on keeping on, Cowboy.

SZ
 
Re: always so sure of what can\'t be done you are

Your first video on this thread was of a over 50% top hitting something. You say it was dead enough to shatter and you were right. What would of happened if it happened to be not as rotten as it looked. Trees do have surprises, and it's our job to not put ourselves in a position to be surprised. Also no matter how much of a veteran, you can still learn from others, even a rookie, a street rubby, or a housewife client that notices something you missed or a new idea.
It's good you are trying different stuff and this realatively young trade has lots of room to grow and improve techniques. Your next idea might be a winner.
 
Re: always so sure of what can\'t be done you are

[ QUOTE ]


My point is that your hubris is something that can and possibly will come back to bite you. Not wishing any harm on you, not at all. You seem like a very sincere dude, albeit overly confident in your ability to avoid unforeseen circumstances.


SZ

[/ QUOTE ]

Daniel... read that. It can't be said any better.
 
Re: always so sure of what can\'t be done you are

[ QUOTE ]
How about this for a question..

Does anyone reading this thread know of anyone that was ever hurt when falling a tree from the ground, where that tree did not hit something on the way down, or barberchair?

If you know how to set up a plunge cut with back release, you should be able to effectively avoid barberchair... If a tree doesn't hit something on the way down, there is no way it can kick back off the stump, until it hits something, (like a steep hill)... also if it hits nothing on the way down there is no way to get a limb thrown back at you.. the only way to get hurt as a faller in the above scenario is if something were to break out of the tree before or as it falls, or if the tree goes the wrong way..

Do you want to have an intelligent conversation here or just go on acting sarcastic?

[/ QUOTE ]

Ya, I smashed my big toe taking out a lead that was alot taller than the distance I had to the ground. It was a pine. The hinge didnt break off the way I wanted it to. Probaly too wide of a hinge or more likely, I backed out too son. Anyhow, the end of the branch hit the ground and did some crazy force multiplying reverberation back up to the cut. It slammed into the crotch where my foot was and pretty much destroyed my Big toe. I had a really bad preexisting injury to that SAME toe from where a log splitter had split it in two peices. I just couldnt beleive that I had just obliviated what had just recently healed enough to walk normaly again. Now Im all crooked and stuff.
Since then, I always make sure I have enough distance beneath me for the bigger / longer leads...Or I'll just watch one of Daniels vids and figure out a way to drop it from the ground. Hes the man. I hope he continues to be the man. I have so much to learn from that dude.
Be careful Daniel or Ill come hurt you.
grin.gif
 
Re: always so sure of what can\'t be done you are

[ QUOTE ]
I had a really bad preexisting injury to that SAME toe from where a log splitter had split it in two peices.

[/ QUOTE ]

???????
I'm guessing there is a good story there...
You got your FOOT in a log splitter?!?
confused.gif
crazy.gif
smile.gif
 
Re: always so sure of what can\'t be done you are

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I had a really bad preexisting injury to that SAME toe from where a log splitter had split it in two peices.

[/ QUOTE ]

???????
I'm guessing there is a good story there...
You got your FOOT in a log splitter?!?
confused.gif
crazy.gif
smile.gif


[/ QUOTE ]
Just a little mishap at the vermeer shop.
Caused the wedge to go through my foot when I went to set the machine up. Thanks Vermeer. Love ya
I looked for the infamous "Go to Hell Vermeer " thread I posted a while back but thankfuly could not find it.
Mabey if I let it go in my head, then the pain in my foot will go away
grin.gif
 
Re: always so sure of what can\'t be done you are

[ QUOTE ]
where that tree did not hit something on the way down, or barberchair?

[/ QUOTE ]
The saw could quit part way into the back cut.
 
Re: always so sure of what can\'t be done you are

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
where that tree did not hit something on the way down, or barberchair?

[/ QUOTE ]
The saw could quit part way into the back cut.

[/ QUOTE ]


Did you not read what Daniel wrote?

"...there is no way it can kick back off the stump....", meaning your theory is shot out of the water.

It's an absolute statement. Rooted in 200 years of felling experience. You probably don't have the skills to keep the saw running, and keep the gunning sights clean for the perfect drop.


SZ
 
Re: always so sure of what can\'t be done you are

[ QUOTE ]
Your first video on this thread was of a over 50% top hitting something. You say it was dead enough to shatter and you were right. What would of happened if it happened to be not as rotten as it looked.

[/ QUOTE ]

I observed that the tree was as rotten only from visual, also from watching the first piece that fell... however, I wasn't about to stake my safety on counting on it falling apart.. Plan B.. tree stays together, catches oak and but drops to ground. From my place in tree, no way top would have fallen backwards... butt would not have swung that far away before hitting ground.. also notice the way the top fell from the cut.. pretty much dropped straight off the stick. So butt was falling before contact with Oak. no way to hang up on hinge. Only concern on that tree was something breaking off and getting thrown back at me... Perspective changes when in the tree.. wasn't as dangerous as it looked in video..
 
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