Question on life support carabiners with auto locking bypass feature

[Phil]

I totally get that it's their slogan, but I have seen the same basic warning in the literature for all climbing gear, and further warnings on some products about not using without having recieved proper instruction in their use.

I don't have handy the exact wording from the Z. Could I trouble you for the exact wording? My internet connection is pretty lame.

I don't have access to my copy this weekend... I'll quote it on Monday but my recollection is something along the lines of carabineers need two consecutive motions to prepare the gate to open. Up, twist, then push to open. Or for the petzl ball locks....push ball twist, push to open.

The orca can be rendered in a push to open config, which even watching the video linked above, will not auto lock unless it's a full open to close motion.

 

[Matias]

I don't have access to my copy this weekend... I'll quote it on Monday but my recollection is something along the lines of carabineers need two consecutive motions to prepare the gate to open. Up, twist, then push to open. Or for the petzl ball locks....push ball twist, push to open.

The orca can be rendered in a push to open config, which even watching the video linked above, will not auto lock unless it's a full open to close motion.

But if it can only be put into that mode by two separate and distinct movements, which is how I remember it, then it is exactly as safe as a standard locker. I can make a locker open up in a way that kind of simulates an accidental opening, but it requires pressure on the gate that would fully open it, not just render it openable. I don't see a real world scenario where it wouldn't be functionally the same as a regular locker.

 

[Phil]

But if it can only be put into that mode by two separate and distinct movements, which is how I remember it, then it is exactly as safe as a standard locker. I can make a locker open up in a way that kind of simulates an accidental opening, but it requires pressure on the gate that would fully open it, not just render it openable. I don't see a real world scenario where it wouldn't be functionally the same as a regular locker.

A busted/sticky carabiner can be said to do the same thing. "Look, I did two things and it's stuck in push mode but it'll still auto lock if I do this other stuff to it". The logic is the same. The orca operates in a way that a faulty carabiner can operate.