X-rigging rings

I like the concept of the X-rings, and can see them for redirects and the initial main rigging point down to a spar. But once it comes to spar work, and replacing the block, I just don't get it...mostly time wise. If you could do negative blocking on 1, or even 2, rings then I could understand. So far all the setups I have seen would either take a lot longer for re-setting before every piece (and/or setup before even starting the spar), or they are extremely bulky rope wise due to prusiking on 2 more rings.

What I would love to see is a real time video of setup in a actual work setting. Basically a x-ring version of this video. Unfortunately my video was edited, it is 2 different log pieces, but the individual setups are real time. I am not sure why I originally edited it this way (this is a clip from a longer edited video), without going through all the raw footage from that day.


I will admit that I have not tried the x-rings yet. I have been looking at them since they came out, and almost bought some several times. The main thing holding me back is the multi rings for spar work, and not mid line attachable.
 
climbhightree said:
I like the concept of the X-rings, and can see them for redirects and the initial main rigging point down to a spar. But once it comes to spar work, and replacing the block, I just don't get it...mostly time wise. If you could do negative blocking on 1, or even 2, rings then I could understand. So far all the setups I have seen would either take a lot longer for re-setting before every piece (and/or setup before even starting the spar), or they are extremely bulky rope wise due to prusiking on 2 more rings.

What I would love to see is a real time video of setup in a actual work setting. Basically a x-ring version of this video. Unfortunately my video was edited, it is 2 different log pieces, but the individual setups are real time. I am not sure why I originally edited it this way (this is a clip from a longer edited video), without going through all the raw footage from that day.


I will admit that I have not tried the x-rings yet. I have been looking at them since they came out, and almost bought some several times. The main thing holding me back is the multi rings for spar work, and not mid line attachable.
Click to expand...
Im pretty sure two xl rings can handle a large load dumped on them ..moving a large block in the tree is not too fun either after a long day. And better throw another wrap or two on the porty with a block. The rings do create good friction for lowering .As far as midline attach ability , planning the rigging points well should eliminate that as an issue. You can always redirect deadeye sling if its in your way.. One thing the oopie slings can't do. I think the lightness and the good friction make them sweet.
 
Aaron Cipolletti said:
Im pretty sure two xl rings can handle a large load dumped on them ..moving a large block in the tree is not too fun either after a long day. And better throw another wrap or two on the porty with a block. The rings do create good friction for lowering .As far as midline attach ability , planning the rigging points well should eliminate that as an issue. You can always redirect deadeye sling if its in your way.. One thing the oopie slings can't do.
Click to expand...

I've yet to see a pre-made sling with the xl rings (and they are the ones I would prefer for that reason, only need 2). A loopie with 2 xl rings built on would be sweet. Or this with 2 rings.
13511.jpg


Personally I prefer almost all the friction at the porty, so ground guy has the complete feel/control of the piece. I realize the amount of friction the ring adds is minimal, compared to natural crotched.

As far as moving redirect if it is in your way, isn't that part of planning your rigging point ;)
 
Just started back playing with these....they are a few weeks old...will get some different setups made....that suit what I do on my sleepy island....
 
climbhightree said:
I've yet to see a pre-made sling with the xl rings (and they are the ones I would prefer for that reason, only need 2). A loopie with 2 xl rings built on would be sweet. Or this with 2 rings.
13511.jpg


Personally I prefer almost all the friction at the porty, so ground guy has the complete feel/control of the piece. I realize the amount of friction the ring adds is minimal, compared to natural crotched.

As far as moving redirect if it is in your way, isn't that part of planning your rigging point ;)
Click to expand...
Last time I checked trees parts disappear as the removal progresses and its a nice feature to readjust points on occasion . ;)
 
climbhightree said:
I like the concept of the X-rings, and can see them for redirects and the initial main rigging point down to a spar. But once it comes to spar work, and replacing the block, I just don't get it...mostly time wise. If you could do negative blocking on 1, or even 2, rings then I could understand. So far all the setups I have seen would either take a lot longer for re-setting before every piece (and/or setup before even starting the spar), or they are extremely bulky rope wise due to prusiking on 2 more rings.

What I would love to see is a real time video of setup in a actual work setting. Basically a x-ring version of this video. Unfortunately my video was edited, it is 2 different log pieces, but the individual setups are real time. I am not sure why I originally edited it this way (this is a clip from a longer edited video), without going through all the raw footage from that day.

I will admit that I have not tried the x-rings yet. I have been looking at them since they came out, and almost bought some several times. The main thing holding me back is the multi rings for spar work, and not mid line attachable.
Click to expand...

Excellent thoughts ClimbHighTree ! It's almost like you are a person I set up to stimulate this conversation on topics that should be discussed. So THANKS!
I don't add prussics to another sling and negative rig any longer; not after our new sling designs that I've been using since about maybe March 2014.
I don't want to show our new sling designs until plenty are in stock and ready to go out to customers.
The new cordage is holding up the process a bit. I expected to have these new slings out a month ago.
With either 3 of the large rings (the 28x20 rings) together, OR only two of the extra large "beast" rings, you can negative rig anything that your bull rope and lowering device can handle.
IF you break a rope, it will NOT occur at those rings following that rule. Sure you can rig plenty off a single large ring or a LOT off a beast ring, but it will have a limit at some point; so I try to set the best practices high and extra safe.

The new slings are very fast to install and lighter than a block and I throw them to the ground when I'm done with them. No prussics, nothing to add, ready to rock and roll the way they come.

Great idea on showing a real time video of the sling install for negative rigging. I will do THAT ! Thanks.

It will take some experience, but you guys will see that spars shake less, tops don't bend as much, when you put friction up IN the tree. Ground-persons don't have to be so perfect at running the rope, things are smoother and mistakes by the groundperson are not magnified like when using a no friction block.

Where I used to be calling for three full wraps on the hobbs or grcs, I'm calling for only one wrap.

As far as not mid-line attachable, my general work plan is this, while wraptoring up the tree, I have my bull rope on my saddle and take several XRR slings with me. I place my redirects and thread my rigging rope through the rings on the way up.

my terminal rigging point is then threaded. As I dismantle the tree more and more, my terminal rigging point is moved lower and it's no big deal, I have the terminal rings in my hand and the end of the rope as well. It's the end of the rope...... so you stick it through the rings. As you get lower in the tree and finally get to a re-direct, you either use or remove the redirect. Again, you have the end of the rope, it's no big deal.

When I used to use blocks, I wouldn't even open the block up either, I'd just thread the tip of the line through the block.

also, on multiple spar trees, I've gotten creative with the redirects when it was that spars turn to go bye bye. let me look for pictures.
 
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redirect thinking tree 2.webp

Say you had these redirects in place and you lowered out portions of the spar on the right, then decide you want the remainder of the spar to go away NOW. IF your XRR sling is not a tying type of sling, here is an option to let the sling go with the piece if you wanted to take a large section all at once and not remove the sling. (if your sling is a tying type sling, you simply untie and let it run down the rope to the ground, or move it to another point in the tree).
 
redirect thinking tree 5.webp

It works really well. with devices that you can tip tie and crank tight of course.

there is NO problem laying the piece down either, it flops over just fine.
 
It is for this very reason that I've all but abandonded the use of whoopie slings at all except where I will begin negative rigging if the main stem... low in the rigging and providing an extra fair lead into the lowering device. Slings with a single ring spliced onto one end can easily be moved midline or used to guide a cut piece down the main rigging line thereby reducing swing on a top-tied piece. David's photos show this very well. They can also be removed and bombed down to the groundies or used as a drift line. I'm anxiously awaiting David's new double ring "non whoopie" sling for a terminal rigging point.

Climbhigh I couldn't help but notice that in your short vid you still re threaded the rigging rope into the block just like would be required with a ring setup???
 
theXman said:
View attachment 28848

Say you had these redirects in place and you lowered out portions of the spar on the right, then decide you want the remainder of the spar to go away NOW. IF your XRR sling is not a tying type of sling, here is an option to let the sling go with the piece if you wanted to take a large section all at once and not remove the sling. (if your sling is a tying type sling, you simply untie and let it run down the rope to the ground, or move it to another point in the tree).
Click to expand...

Thanks for the post Xman...and I am looking forward to the new slings.

I know I will probably get some backlash for this, but at those re-direct angles I would just be using a carabiner...and probably on a light duty sling. Those points are not carrying a lot of weight, they are just re-directing some of it. Also, the bend radius isn't that hard on them. I totally agree though, that the X-rings would be better to use...just over kill. Keep in mind I run a 2 man crew operation, so we are not lowering HUGE limbs and wood. The larger the piece the more something like the x-ring becomes necessary. I pretty much use carabiners till we get to the spar work...then out comes the block. I hoping that soon it will be out comes the X-rings.

I like the aspect of leaving the ring in to guide the wood down, and less swing. But one thing that would concern me is the extra slack it is putting into the tip tie once the piece comes loose. Unless that piece of wood is being lifted, or seriously cranked on, I would think your adding a lot of shock to the system (almost negative blocking). It would also have a less predictable swing, due to multiple tension points, and the sudden release of one of them.
 
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John Uselding said:
Climbhigh I couldn't help but notice that in your short vid you still re threaded the rigging rope into the block just like would be required with a ring setup???
Click to expand...

The mid line attachable point was just kinda thrown in at the end of my original post, and was more directed at the re-direct aspect of the X-rings. Spar work I do not have a problem with having to feed the rope through the rings, at that point my issues with the rings become setup time and bulk. Both of which Xman seems to be addressing :)
 
climbhigh, i leave one beast with 2 rings on a prussic all set up together so i dont need to assemble it the moment i need it, and it is just as fast as a block when neg rigging, just lighting in the saddle and easy to tie a cow / timber hitch cause theres no weight of a block to hold up when tying.

for redirects on the stem to adjust rope path, sometimes i still use a sling and biner, usually when im in the bucket tho. David has said this in an informative video, and i never thought of how to articulate it, but the rings are "mid line moveable" i guess is how you would say it. i dont need something to be midline attachable anymore, i just until my sling and move it where i want to hang stuff.

and i love how its smooth edges all over. i used to use micro pulleys and CMI blocks so weird rope angles were rough on the rope.

i will also try to dig up some footage of setting up the rings real time.
 
For you guys that like your sling and biners (myself included) for LIGHT stuff that those slings work for if you like the idea of the xrr you can cow hitch a xrr into an end of your sling then just use it like normal. Works best of course with the skinny slings not the 1" nylon but on that note the small redirect whoopie may be right up your alley as well. For light stuff, just a note that that would be using 1 ring unless you use a basket and Xman has said repeatedly not to do that. but just some thoughts if its small enough for a sling and biner you may be fine,
 
XRR's are much wider than a biner, that's for sure. So, if you are use to a biner and are taking biner sized stuff, the XRR will be adding a greater margin of strength, yes, you are right.
 
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