What is it worth?
- Thread starter Leroy
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SomethingWitty
Arkansawyer
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- LR
No, just noticing a general correlation between the intrinsic value of any individual human and their personal success according to their own way of measuring it. The example was about how their value to me as a professional (and to most people) is closely associated with their income. It's a not a perfect example, but it is an easy way to illustrate that everyone is worth one of themselves, but that rarely equals one of another given person.
I agree that greedy employers are a contributing factor.
Boss send young aspiring climber out job, young climber doesn’t want to disappoint so attempts to do something above his skill level and gets hurt.
The young climber has followed all of the safety rules outlined by the ohs regulator for that area, used gear in good condition.
The employer has fulfilled his obligations by providing safe equipment and training.
The young climber wanting to climb the ranks doesn’t want to pull the pin on the job and look like a “sissy”
Boss send young aspiring climber out job, young climber doesn’t want to disappoint so attempts to do something above his skill level and gets hurt.
The young climber has followed all of the safety rules outlined by the ohs regulator for that area, used gear in good condition.
The employer has fulfilled his obligations by providing safe equipment and training.
The young climber wanting to climb the ranks doesn’t want to pull the pin on the job and look like a “sissy”
I think ego has a lot to do with some of the accidents we see.
The old she’ll be right mate while back cutting a huge tree whilst secretly shitting yourself but wanting to impress the boys.
I know I had a few of these moments in my early days, lucky for me I was never seriously injured, I did however learn a hell of a lot from my mistakes and try to make every effort to pass on that knowledge to my workers and make sure they never feel the pressure to take a chance on something that could really hurt them
The old she’ll be right mate while back cutting a huge tree whilst secretly shitting yourself but wanting to impress the boys.
I know I had a few of these moments in my early days, lucky for me I was never seriously injured, I did however learn a hell of a lot from my mistakes and try to make every effort to pass on that knowledge to my workers and make sure they never feel the pressure to take a chance on something that could really hurt them
Yes, personal responsibility is the end all be all for human existence. Though is it not true that when a worker dies there are more responsible parties other than the deceased. For example, if an individual is profiting from another risking their life and it is lost, then they also share in this responsibility, in my opinion.
Everybody wants to be the man, but nobody wants to be the man....
Dave and Swing, I have a hard time believing that if a person perished on one of your jobs that you would not feel some bit of ownership in this incident.
Everybody wants to be the man, but nobody wants to be the man....
Dave and Swing, I have a hard time believing that if a person perished on one of your jobs that you would not feel some bit of ownership in this incident.
SomethingWitty
Arkansawyer
- Location
- LR
More emotional appeals. If the fact that I am profiting makes me more responsible than not profiting no matter how much training, freedom to work at their own pace, and high-quality gear I provide, (compared to another owner that doesn't provide the same or make as much money, or even a mentor who provides the training or kit but doesn't profit at all) then I believe that this game is rigged and the only way to succeed is to micromanage everything and make no money.
I haven't been in a position where I would die because of anybody else's mistakes (barring cutting a base tie or feeding my rope to a chipper) since very early in my career. No boss is going to kill me. And if I die on job, nobody better blame my boss. I want him to make money (the more the better!) So that I can keep doing what I love, and with the best equipment we can afford.
SomethingWitty
Arkansawyer
- Location
- LR
More emotional appeals. If the fact that I am profiting makes me more responsible than not profiting no matter how much training, freedom to work at their own pace, and high-quality gear I provide, (compared to another owner that doesn't provide the same or make as much money, or even a mentor who provides the training or kit but doesn't profit at all) then I believe that this game is rigged and the only way to succeed is to micromanage everything and make no money.
I haven't been in a position where I would die because of anybody else's mistakes (barring cutting a base tie or feeding my rope to a chipper) since very early in my career. No boss is going to kill me. And if I die on job, nobody better blame my boss. I want him to make money (the more the better!) So that I can keep doing what I love, and with the best equipment we can afford.
SomethingWitty
Arkansawyer
- Location
- LR
More emotional appeals. If the fact that I am profiting makes me more responsible than not profiting no matter how much training, freedom to work at their own pace, and high-quality gear I provide, (compared to another owner that doesn't provide the same or make as much money, or even a mentor who provides the training or kit but doesn't profit at all) then I believe that this game is rigged and the only way to succeed is to micromanage everything and make no money.
I haven't been in a position where I would die because of anybody else's mistakes (barring cutting a base tie or feeding my rope to a chipper) since very early in my career. No boss is going to kill me. And if I die on job, nobody better blame my boss. I want him to make money (the more the better!) So that I can keep doing what I love, and with the best equipment we can afford.
SomethingWitty
Arkansawyer
- Location
- LR
More emotional appeals. If the fact that I am profiting makes me more responsible than not profiting no matter how much training, freedom to work at their own pace, and high-quality gear I provide, (compared to another owner that doesn't provide the same or make as much money, or even a mentor who provides the training or kit but doesn't profit at all) then I believe that this game is rigged and the only way to succeed is to micromanage everything and make no money.
I haven't been in a position where I would die because of anybody else's mistakes (barring cutting a base tie or feeding my rope to a chipper) since very early in my career. No boss is going to kill me. And if I die on job, nobody better blame my boss. I want him to make money (the more the better!) So that I can keep doing what I love, and with the best equipment we can afford.
I was a bit harsh and an owner should accept some responsibility but where does it start and end Levi.
Good question and I do not know the answer but It's worth consideration, to me at least.
Crimsonking
Been here a while
I was involved in an incident where a coworker was injured, and three people took responsibility when the owner met with the crew- me (I tied a knot improperly), the injured (walked through a drop zone under a hanging piece), and the man on rope (said he should have called out to the person walking under to stay out of drop zone). If I had done my job right, none of the others would have had anything to worry about. Their high class led them to be willing, though, to see how better decisions from them could have isolated my bad decision and led to nothing more than a good chewing/learning experience without injury. Trust me, a lesson was learned, and the fact that someone's life was endangered stays with me.
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Crimsonking
Been here a while
I guess the point is, there is usually shared responsibility, but the intent of investigation should be scrutinized. Are we trying to pin blame, or learn? The company I was with at the time had exceptional leadership that sought growth, and did not care to act punitively. My conscience was punishment enough.
SomethingWitty
Arkansawyer
- Location
- LR
I did. Running a cheap phone because my fancy one died, and it acted like it didn't register a touch. Finally it acted like it noticed one, and then there were 4. I spent ten minutes trying to delete them, too. It's almost enough frustration to go get a better one instead of waiting on the warranty one to ship.
My aim is to learn of course, but it is also to pin blame. Not on any individual necessarily but on a culture and system that is greatly flawed and exploitative.
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Crimsonking
Been here a while
What system are you referring to, and how is it exploitative? I see very little system in US arb work. I have worked for those who exploit (quite short tenure) and for those who have and still would rather put themselves in harms way than ask someone else to do it. Recently I rejoined a team I was with a few years ago. Today the owner asked my opinion of a damaged tree. It may be the most compromised structure requiring technical removal that I’ve ever seen. He was planning to tackle it tomorrow because he didn’t want to ask anyone else to take the risk. That’s far from exploitative.
When we start assuming intention, we go astray. That’s not to say that correction isn’t necessary, but we must correct actions. I agree with those who have said our work is inherently hazardous. There is a matter of statistical averages. This fact should not be a crutch, for sure, but it is a fact. I believe the best thing that can be done for recruits is to manage expectation- the climber, chipper, and saws are trying to kill you. Follow protocol, and engage with the team so that all are following protocol, and no death can be blamed on a person. In this life, death is a reality- often unwelcome, unnatural feeling to our souls, an interruption to what we continually crave: life. Ultimately our goal is to leave here without blood on our hands, so I conclude that eliminating deaths within the industry is improbable, but we should strive daily for our hands to be clean of another’s blood.
When we start assuming intention, we go astray. That’s not to say that correction isn’t necessary, but we must correct actions. I agree with those who have said our work is inherently hazardous. There is a matter of statistical averages. This fact should not be a crutch, for sure, but it is a fact. I believe the best thing that can be done for recruits is to manage expectation- the climber, chipper, and saws are trying to kill you. Follow protocol, and engage with the team so that all are following protocol, and no death can be blamed on a person. In this life, death is a reality- often unwelcome, unnatural feeling to our souls, an interruption to what we continually crave: life. Ultimately our goal is to leave here without blood on our hands, so I conclude that eliminating deaths within the industry is improbable, but we should strive daily for our hands to be clean of another’s blood.
Crimsonking
Been here a while
Btw, I love your threads, Levi!
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Do you ever have the occasional customer service experience like this?- Started by climbingmonkey24
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