What is it worth?

I’m sorry but this is way off base. Brainwashing, propaganda, glamorizing.... come to the owner level, and find any kind of good help! The ISA and TCIA to a phenomenal job shedding light on our industry for young people and all others. Yes it’s to entice them to join our wonderful profession, but they are also HUGE resources for work place safety, business management and technical support.
I would argue without these organizations, those of us that actually give a shit, wouldn’t be here because we wouldn’t have the available work force or resources to run out businesses. There would be NO standards. It would be a bunch of hotshot cowboys with beat up pickups and dads chainsaw.
As for the pyramid of capitalism not all business is run like that. The boss is not always in the upper levels.
People need to get their head out of the sand and look around, not all business is run the same way. You are generalizing which is no better than brainwashing, glamorizing and propaganda!
A couple of counterpoints, if I may. I am on "the owner level" and have no trouble finding any good help. I am a member of a successful cooperative, worker managed tree service. If folks need to be enticed into a job well, that is simply dishonest in my opinion. Sure, these outfits promote standards, but how effective are they, really? I have seen tons of poor tree care performed by certified arbs and seen plenty of sketchy work perpetrated by tcia shops, downright unsafe in many instances. I have also seen plenty of great quality and safe work performed by people who have no involvement with these organizations. So, based on my experience I do not see the evidence that these groups are very effective at improving tree care quality and worker conditions.

I see tcia as more of a shill for insurance companies and big iron manufacturing. I am happy to elaborate on that if it does not make sense. Also seems to encourage folks to become enslaved to the banking cartel. I wonder what percent of the tree labor hours nationwide are dedicated to paying interest on loans for equipment that simultaneously depreciates as the hours tick by?

I think you may have missed the point with the pyramid picture. The boss is never on the upper level, he is only tricked to believe he is. It is fair enough that you think my head is in the sand though it is often the case that people espouse advice to others that really is most suited for themselves.

Lastly, is the winter time manager's meetup in the Caribbean not the biggest insult to the workers left behind in the frozen North? For shame!
 
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Levi, your market is not representative of the norm.

Iron saved me from so much back breaking labor, zero workers comp, the machine never makes dumb mistakes. People like to start making independent decisions that stray from an agreed upon, communicated team plan... Machines never do.

How would you manage big trees where 16" rounds could weigh over 400 pounds, maybe 600 or more?

I have 6000 pounds of chips in my bed, ready to unload pulling the iron lever. A third to a half of that was machine-fed.


More power to you to live in an affluent area where pruning can dominate your work, and machine needs are minimal.
 
Levi, your market is not representative of the norm.

Iron saved me from so much back breaking labor, zero workers comp, the machine never makes dumb mistakes. People like to start making independent decisions that stray from an agreed upon, communicated team plan... Machines never do.

How would you manage big trees where 16" rounds could weigh over 400 pounds, maybe 600 or more?

I have 6000 pounds of chips in my bed, ready to unload pulling the iron lever. A third to a half of that was machine-fed.


More power to you to live in an affluent area where pruning can dominate your work, and machine needs are minimal.
Someone there loves their trees. I live in Arkansas. You can't accuse us of being particularly affluent, and yet more than half of my days are spent on deadwood, building and driveway clearance, and light preventative structural work. Hire someone who could sell sno cones to Eskimos to convince people to take care of their trees.
 
I know, Sean, we've had a similar discussion before. I dig the way you roll and you seem to have a humble operation, which I respect indeed. To each their own, I am not convinced that machines are necessary to efficiently complete daily residential tree work tasks, no matter where you. I know that is the common belief in the industry, but it is not mine.

https://www.theatlantic.com/busines...ctor-explains-the-middle-class-crisis/254270/
 
I know, Sean, we've had a similar discussion before. I dig the way you roll and you seem to have a humble operation, which I respect indeed. To each their own, I am not convinced that machines are necessary to efficiently complete daily residential tree work tasks, no matter where you. I know that is the common belief in the industry, but it is not mine.

https://www.theatlantic.com/busines...ctor-explains-the-middle-class-crisis/254270/
They simply can’t! A tree mec can’t prune, a mini can’t go anywhere. They are simply tools in the box, sure you could structure a business around equipment and not skilled employees, but when you do so you have to work within the limitations of the machine. There will always be a place for a saddle, climbing saw, a few ropes and pickup, not to mention the brains on how to use them. iHowever every piece of equipment has limitations when used they can and will greatly increase efficiency if maintained.
Look at Steve and his new business. It’s cool as shit, but can’t prune, and can’t remove trees out of reach or where the machine can’t get to, it sure as hell cant plant a tree. It’s not a foolish choice, but one with limitations.
 
Okay.... The reason I brought up machines had nothing to do with are they efficient? or how they can be used or what are their limitations....
 
Employees limit ME so much more than machines, which are never tired, late, hung over, grumpy, poor decision-makers, require loads of workers comp (75 hours a month of workers' comp insurance covers my payment on my mini).

I do less work for more money with machines (from chainsaws to rope walkers to mini/ chipper/ dump truck, grinder, splitter) and bid higher on jobs that require me to break my body because the mini doesn't fit.


Different strokes, different markets, different...
 
They simply can’t! A tree mec can’t prune, a mini can’t go anywhere. They are simply tools in the box, sure you could structure a business around equipment and not skilled employees, but when you do so you have to work within the limitations of the machine. There will always be a place for a saddle, climbing saw, a few ropes and pickup, not to mention the brains on how to use them. iHowever every piece of equipment has limitations when used they can and will greatly increase efficiency if maintained.
Look at Steve and his new business. It’s cool as shit, but can’t prune, and can’t remove trees out of reach or where the machine can’t get to, it sure as hell cant plant a tree. It’s not a foolish choice, but one with limitations.
In defense, it cam prune. Just big stuff and needs the cuts cleaned up. Ive actually done quire a few pruning contracts. Also they make an auger for it so if I wanted to I could plant trees but you're rite. I'm stuck doing what I can with the truck, that was the point of the purchase. It's a market disruptor capturing a niche. Tree services are a dime a dozen.
 
In defense, it cam prune. Just big stuff and needs the cuts cleaned up. Ive actually done quire a few pruning contracts. Also they make an auger for it so if I wanted to I could plant trees but you're rite. I'm stuck doing what I can with the truck, that was the point of the purchase. It's a market disruptor capturing a niche. Tree services are a dime a dozen.
That works for you and I’m proud of you. The point though can machines replace tree workers? Nope, but we can sure as hell use them, make business models with them, but not total replacement
 
Or in my case coffee and cigs...
samezies. Yeah I make it very clear to everyone I talk to, this machine will never take the place of the climber. Heck I usually can't finish a big tree without one. What it does is lets the climber rest until wood picks. Now it does have a place for sure. I have done very few trees where the conversation in my head went like "this guy coulda just climbed this thing and done it quicker, cheaper, safer, with less cleanup, because the weather is perfect and there's no dragging brush." My prediction is people who aren't veteran tree climbers are gonna buy one of these and have a disaster. I personally feel if you haven't been in the industry for a while, you shouldn't be dismantling trees with one. I can count numerous times where I could have really screwed the pooch but experience as a climber made all the difference. I guess the point is the TreeMek will not alleviate all risk. It just creates a whole new set of risks we haven't seen come to the forefront........YET
 

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