What is it worth?

Cool, I respect that. Especially in the realm of personal enjoyment, more power to ya. I'm cool with my kids risking it at the bike park to have fun, or likewise in other parts of life. (within certain parameters)!

To be fair, to "live" your life could mean a lot of different things to different folks. If you couldn't tell, I'm not much of a thrill seeker action sport kinda person yet still I feel that I am living my life and not just surviving, although sometimes that is all one can do!
 
Stephen Moore said:
Agree 100 percent with that. Sadly, many people these days are struggling to make ends meet. They feel that the job they have is better than no job at all, even though the safety practices are poor. Another issue is that people just getting started in this sport don’t really know what’s safe and what’s not, just like an apprentice is supposed to learn the right way to do his trade, if his teacher is doing things incorrectly that’s the lesson he’s taught.
We pride ourselves with Zero accidents involving injury or property damage. We have taken down no powerlines with trees or equipment. That’s after doing this every year for 12 years. Safety can be done, there is no excuse for unsafe work habits. When you are feeling spent, say so and come down, there’s always tomorrow unless you push it beyond the safety limit. Then maybe not?
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It has not been easier to make ends meet ever before. I turned 18 right as the housing bubble was ready to burst. A job was hard to find for everyone I knew... But I managed it. I could go get many today if I tried.
The same stubborn, prideful, ignorant youth that you refer to being taught poorly are virtually unhireable. They don't know how to do anything besides stare at screens and insist that they deserve more money. All human life does not have the same value (I, personally, value my dogs much more highly than I do about 6 billion people). If it did, we would be worth the same in every position at every company in at least a given geographic location. That was a lot of buildup, but my point is that the choice of whether you are valuable, safe, competent, working, or any number of other things is mostly up to you. Luck or unknowable circumstances have some influence, but not enough to pretend you can't steer your car. Every one of us is free to throw our lives away. I don't usually mind if they do. Hell, I've made a handful of cuts in my career where I thought "I hope I'm as good as I think I am. If not, I'm dead." as I fired the saw up. I knew what I was doing. I don't do that anymore, but without my family I probably still would occasionally.
The resources are there. They are plentiful and affordable. The only excuse for not knowing what should go on on a tree job is that you have never thought of doing that kind of work.
 
No matter what industry or activity you participate in there wil always be a risk.
Human loss is unfortunately always going to be a part of life.
I consider myself and my business to operate exceptionally safely, in terms of training, work practices, equipment, time lines etc.
However I my self still had my closest encounter with death whilst climbing just last week. Everything was done correctly and was working within my abilities, but we cannot always allow for everything and there can be unforeseen dangers in everything that we do
 
Let's imagine, that the dead could speak. I am sure that our friends who perished on the job would say to us living arbs

"Dude, it was totally fucking worth it! I mean, I died doing something I just really loved, I know my mom is really proud of me. Plus, since I died in the noble act of removing trees from peoples yards I'm something of a martyr in the afterlife. That's right, hj's, bj's, vjs, you name it, anytime. Plus all the other dead people want to meet me, hell, just the other day I played chess with Micheal Jackson! OMG RIGHT!"
 
SomethingWitty said:
All human life does not have the same value (I, personally, value my dogs much more highly than I do about 6 billion people). If it did, we would be worth the same in every position at every company in at least a given geographic location.
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Interesting, so you determine the worth of life based on the income of said life-form ?
 
Steve Connally said:
Thanks for posting this Levi. Some accidents are deaths that are truly accidents. High risk occupation, unfortunately its gonna happen. Then there are the others that clutter our safety numbers. Imagine if we had a set of numbers based on safe companies and professional outfits and a second set of numbers for hacks, unsafe companies, and general people who shouldn't use a can opener. I think our numbers would be way lower. Subbing for a bunch of companies leads me to a predictability thought. I can spend about 2 hours with them and know eventually somebody is gonna get hurt on their job site. Others i'd be really surprised if they had a mishap. I don't know, i'm pretty jaded about life. I'm also jaded about the average tree service. It's rare to find someone who has all of their shit together, not just a part of it. For example, nice equipment but no safety practices.
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I have often wondered about this. I don’t know how you’d clean up the numbers? ISA cert only? It seems like the numbers are inflated from all the landscapers or anyone else with a business license but really shouldn’t touch a saw or leave the ground
 
Why so many deaths and injuries? Is it just that we hear about them more these days, or are there more accidents? I have been thinking about this quit a bit lately.

It seems that our gear has gotten way less rugged, and some of the more modern techniques seem a little more prone to accidents.

I climbed on the same floating dee, leg strap saddle for over 30 years and never gave it a second thought. The old saddle is alive and well, and I would still trust my life with it. Sure it is not as comfy as a TreeMo or MB, but you could hang a fucking truck off this thing. Look at the webbing and bridge on a Weaver/Buckingham floating dee, and a TreeMo/MB, then tell me which one you would trust to keep you safe?

As much as I am loving SRT, it sure seems to me that it can have some serious issues with TIP failure. I never heard of so many folk having their TIP's fail back in the dark ugly days of Ddrt.

Just some thoughts from a crusty old-timer. As a recent SRT convert, these latest and greatest tools have been a real game changer for me, but I just don't have the same level of trust with them that I do with some of my old-school gear. Over 30 years of a Floating Dee, 7/8" wire-core flip-line, and a taut-line hitch, and I can honestly say I never had a moment of uncertainty about my gear. Ever!
 
DSMc said:
How would you go about doing this?
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A couple of newer things that could be helpful in increased safety- The chipsafe system that kills the engine when you reach past the in-feed tray. Even better, take whole tree chippers off the job site entirely and haul brush with grapples to sort yards. The remote controlled treemek seems nearly fool proof with an operator standing away from both machine and tree with work area cleared entirely of fleshy lifeforms.

On a broader level, similar to the osha requirement stating one can "ride the ball" but only if it can be demonstrated that it is safer than other methods. Perhaps a requirement to demonstrate the need to risk human life in the interest of tree trimming and/or removing.
 
Levi.CO said:
A couple of newer things that could be helpful in increased safety- The chipsafe system that kills the engine when you reach past the in-feed tray. Even better, take whole tree chippers off the job site entirely and haul brush with grapples to sort yards. The remote controlled treemek seems nearly fool proof with an operator standing away from both machine and tree with work area cleared entirely of fleshy lifeforms.

On a broader level, similar to the osha requirement stating one can "ride the ball" but only if it can be demonstrated that it is safer than other methods. Perhaps a requirement to demonstrate the need to risk human life in the interest of tree trimming and/or removing.
Click to expand...

No.
 
rico said:
Why so many deaths and injuries? Is it just that we hear about them more these days, or are there more accidents? I have been thinking about this quit a bit lately.
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I would contest that the increased death and injury is really not an increase but a result of the Information Age. It’s easier to get the information about these deaths and injuries than it’s ever been before.
 
The increase could also be from the increase of people who want to become a badass tree climber.
Look at cars, with these huge increases in safety features, devices etc fitted to cars and the road toll continues to rise!!!
 
I think both of those things are very likely the major reasons we perceive a more grim outlook.

More people looking for a way to make money that they think will be a low investment and easy money. Yeah, we know better, but most of them don't think things through or do enough research.
"I got this Poulan chainsaw, and I've never hurt myself with it, yet... and I've used it six times!"
A month later, a video of him falling out of a tree and landing on his (still running) chainsaw goes viral and he's practically famous. Just not in a good way.

Inexperience, lack of foresight and the Information Age add up to comedy and tragedy on YouTube.
 
This is true, yet the fact remains that there is a system in place that is killing young men, in the name of $$$. This isn't about the dong with the poulan, it's about the people who check all of the boxes and then look the other way sending kids who don't know any better into the fray, all for a measly hourly wage! To each their own but I personally encourage anyone who is a wage slave in this deadly occupation to get while the gettin's good! At least if your part of a fair collective or building your own biz you died on your own account, not earning cheese for some dude to cover insurance on his 3rd Ski-doo!
 
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