If he had thread the needle we wouldn't be here talking about this top now would we...He took a mundane top/drop, or top/flop/drop job and tried to make it something more for the cameras... Fucking swing and a miss......Instead of claiming a "bullseye" he should probably be reflecting on just how lucky he got on this one.....
Thoughts?
- Thread starter rico
- Start date
This is the problem I have with a lot of these YouTube arborists. They're trying to take a mundane industry and spice it up. I've met a number of young guys who want to get into the industry because of these videos, thinking it's all huge crane picks, monster trees, pinpoint drops, and swinging all over the place. These things happen obviously, but they are far from the norm. When they realize the regular day to day is way less exciting they bail. Hard to keep guys engaged and interested anymore.
Sure, dropping a 90ft top into a tight spot is an adrenaline rush, but how about a follow up vid showing the hours long cleanup
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Tree-Taylor
Branched out member
- Location
- Canada
I don't disagree that all signs point to it being a poorly executed drop that could have had serious consequences for himself or the home owner...the bullseye throw is badass but oddly placed following a near-miss. It was worth while pointing out and I'm glad you did.
I could have just gone without the round table of righteousness that followed.
cerviarborist
Very stable member
- Location
- Florida, USA
But that wouldn’t play to all the know-nothing fanboys following his page now would it?
Daniel
Carpal tunnel level member
- Location
- Suburban Philadelphia (Wayne)
If you take another look you will see clearly that that break in the stem occurs with mpact on the ground and the glancing blow barely if at all even scratched the bark.
So check your story telling.
My guess is he was trying to preserve the lawn by taking it as far left as possible. That kept all the debris and potential damage to the turf right under the other trees where there was no grass growing.
While he may have been safer taking it a degree or 2 to the right I don't think he was personally in any danger even if it had had a direct hit on the other stem. hitting the other stem would not push the top back at him.
Given his accuracy in the past I'd give him the benefit of the doubt on this one.
it's a good question what could happen after a direct hit. it could have cracked and broken in half, but also could have pivoted wildly. I still think it was a low risk scenario in either case due to the layout of the obstacles.
My criticism would be more like he should have set up a MA system for the pull line with that big a top and the house in play.
And I don't laugh after I kill a tree. that rubs me the wrong way...
No one in their right mind intentionally hits another tree or spar with a big top...He missed his lay pure and simple....Watch as he clears all his left side hinge as the top begins going over...Thats because he knew it was headed directly towards the spar and so he tried to carve it to the right... Fail and miss.
Also take a look a the tag line...He lost that top a of couple feet to the left as is evident by the starting and ending position of the tagline.
Completely agree with your assessment that something more than a couple 140lbs dudes would have been called for to pull a top that large near a home....
I have personally seen someone center punch a spar with a big top and the butt ended up spinning about 60-70 degrees from its intended lay. That could have been fairly disastrous in this scenario.....
The spar was tall enough that if it were closer to his top he would have run the risk of having that top sit in his lap...Something that has killed its fair share of climbers......
Fucking "bullseye" my ass.....
Also take a look a the tag line...He lost that top a of couple feet to the left as is evident by the starting and ending position of the tagline.
Completely agree with your assessment that something more than a couple 140lbs dudes would have been called for to pull a top that large near a home....
I have personally seen someone center punch a spar with a big top and the butt ended up spinning about 60-70 degrees from its intended lay. That could have been fairly disastrous in this scenario.....
The spar was tall enough that if it were closer to his top he would have run the risk of having that top sit in his lap...Something that has killed its fair share of climbers......
Fucking "bullseye" my ass.....
Daniel
Carpal tunnel level member
- Location
- Suburban Philadelphia (Wayne)
I've never heard anyone call tree work a mundane industry before.
That is a terrible mischaracterization ... hardly mundane when we have seen members of this forum die from simply forgetting to clip in their lanyard.
Perhaps a better way to see it is that the people that produce tree videos are trying to provide new and or exciting footage and that has a tendency to influence the way they perform a task, tending to make it more dangerous or outrageous. I've done it and know making videos ads a degree of danger to this work, even if only because it's one more thing to think about.
Daniel
Carpal tunnel level member
- Location
- Suburban Philadelphia (Wayne)
He did not intentionally hit the spar. He intentionally missed the spar, coming very close, but not close enough to affect the fall. That's what he was trying to do and that's what he did. SO what if he had to steer it on the way down. We have all done that. We start a tight drop and steer it on the way down and hit the lay. You can question how he pulled it off, but not whether he pulled it off. SO it's logical that he was playing to the camera and took an unnecessary chance in doing so. That you can criticize, but he did not miss the lay. HE HIT THE LAY unquestionably.
But that's not good enough for you... if the sawdust doesn't look right or the surface of the face isn't a perfectly smooth plane, or in this case if he brushes another spar on the way down, you flip out!.
That's not missing your lay "pure and simple". But in typical Rico style, you'll yell it over and over and slander anyone who says different.
As you say if the top were taller, he could have been in danger. BUT IT WASN'T so he wasn't in danger. But go ahead and criticize him for an untrue hypothetical That's YOUR STYLE!
and yes the top could have pivoted. I already said that in my above post. It's unlikely with that much length to the piece and given the momentum at the point of potential impact that it would have swung far enough to hit the house. That's why I called it a low-risk scenario. But that's just my opinion. We've all seen stranger things happen in this biz.
He may have taken an unnecessary risk, playing for the camera, but all the crap you people are laying on him, says more about you than him.
Now if you want to criticize the guy, he's left you plenty of ammunition in the past. But not on this one. Get a life!
You once again seem to be operating in an alternative reality Daniel because he definitely, without a doubt, hit the spar (7:27 pic below). Watch the vid at 7:28 to 7:32 buddy. Notice the dust, bark ,and wood flying? That could only happen it he had in fact hit the spar, which he in fact did.
Watch his groundie at 0:52 to 0:58. He was 8-10 ft to the right spar and Billy says "Yep" when asked if thats where he was putting the top. That also just happens to be the exact same sight as the tagline. Strange Huh? If that weren't enough we have Billy saying he was going to the right of the spar, but nary a word about actually hitting the spar. One would figure he would have notified his groundies if that was his intent.
Missing by multiple feet is what those of us who actually work in the woods refer to as "missing your lay". And yea if he had "missed his lay" a few more inches to the left he could have easily snapped that top in half, possibly causing the butt log to go just about anywhere it chose, including on the HO's deck and/or house....
Hell, even the best miss their lay from time to time...Aint no shame in that.. It is through our own, as well as others mistakes that we hopefully learn and get a little better everyday....I think it is safe to say the we have all learned much from your own exploits Daniel...
Watch his groundie at 0:52 to 0:58. He was 8-10 ft to the right spar and Billy says "Yep" when asked if thats where he was putting the top. That also just happens to be the exact same sight as the tagline. Strange Huh? If that weren't enough we have Billy saying he was going to the right of the spar, but nary a word about actually hitting the spar. One would figure he would have notified his groundies if that was his intent.
Missing by multiple feet is what those of us who actually work in the woods refer to as "missing your lay". And yea if he had "missed his lay" a few more inches to the left he could have easily snapped that top in half, possibly causing the butt log to go just about anywhere it chose, including on the HO's deck and/or house....
Hell, even the best miss their lay from time to time...Aint no shame in that.. It is through our own, as well as others mistakes that we hopefully learn and get a little better everyday....I think it is safe to say the we have all learned much from your own exploits Daniel...
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Jehinten
Been here much more than a while
- Location
- Evansville
Only making an observation. Guessing=storytelling
Daniel
Carpal tunnel level member
- Location
- Suburban Philadelphia (Wayne)
I know that top brushed the spar, but that had zero affect on the fall. it. was erroneously reported in this thread that the contact in question cracked the top , complete with graphics....
neither you nor anyone else criticizing the drop bothered to correct that clearly mistaken accusation. which begs the question.... are you more interested in piling accusations and insults on a man than in a truthful analysis and critical conversation to actually offer some sound learning here.
You could have shared a lot of things that people could learn from that are brought out in this video without simply going after Billy and attacking him.
But that's your nature your just nasty like that you like to attack and insult people rather than bring something into a conversation that actually lifts people up, teaches or at least offers the opportunity to actually learn something.
Billy has repeatedly put out examples of extreme falling skills, generously shown lots of advanced techniques and shared a lot of wisdom and been a good ambassador for the industry.
what have you done?
You nasty attitude has tarnished this site and chased many good men away. you use this site as a forum to spout your ugliness. and you suck others into that cesspool of vile words. And that's what this site has been reduced to.
Not one in ten here would have the skill or the guts to make that cut. Probably less have ever been in a tree that size. But look at the atmosphere you created. everyone wants to pile on the critical posts. anyone that doesn't follow the crowd gets chastised.
There is a saying in the tree business
An inch is as good as a mile.
As far as I'm concerned no damage was done the top landed in about the best place it could have to do the least amount of lawn damage and so it was a very a successful drop.
Billy is done more for the tree care industry than all of his critics combined.
neither you nor anyone else criticizing the drop bothered to correct that clearly mistaken accusation. which begs the question.... are you more interested in piling accusations and insults on a man than in a truthful analysis and critical conversation to actually offer some sound learning here.
You could have shared a lot of things that people could learn from that are brought out in this video without simply going after Billy and attacking him.
But that's your nature your just nasty like that you like to attack and insult people rather than bring something into a conversation that actually lifts people up, teaches or at least offers the opportunity to actually learn something.
Billy has repeatedly put out examples of extreme falling skills, generously shown lots of advanced techniques and shared a lot of wisdom and been a good ambassador for the industry.
what have you done?
You nasty attitude has tarnished this site and chased many good men away. you use this site as a forum to spout your ugliness. and you suck others into that cesspool of vile words. And that's what this site has been reduced to.
Not one in ten here would have the skill or the guts to make that cut. Probably less have ever been in a tree that size. But look at the atmosphere you created. everyone wants to pile on the critical posts. anyone that doesn't follow the crowd gets chastised.
There is a saying in the tree business
An inch is as good as a mile.
As far as I'm concerned no damage was done the top landed in about the best place it could have to do the least amount of lawn damage and so it was a very a successful drop.
Billy is done more for the tree care industry than all of his critics combined.
Daniel
Carpal tunnel level member
- Location
- Suburban Philadelphia (Wayne)
You need to get some glasses dude.
Just watch the video one more time and you'll see that top cracked when it hit the ground.
The fact that you would see that top making such a sleigh contact and even think it was possible to crack shows what limited experience and knowledge you have.
If you weren't so busy running your mouth with a bunch of BS you might actually learn something in this business
Jehinten
Been here much more than a while
- Location
- Evansville
Just to clarify, I never attacked Billy, someone asked what could happen and I gave one scenario of what could happen. It did in fact break when it hit the ground but I think it's no coincidence that it broke within feet, if not the exact spot, that it hit the spar.
You seem awful quick to jump down people's throats @Daniel , you should try to relax a little.
evo
Been here much more than a while
- Location
- My Island, WA
I watched it a third time, this time while paying attention the whole time. Dude missed his lay, nipped the spar (which could have been detrimental) by about 1/4 diameter of the top. The contact did nudge the top to the right (to the house), It hit with enough force to whip the outer top (maybe contributing to the break), and the top broke obvious to the camera upon impact.
I chock this up to getting close to a bullseye with sever consequences of a near miss. He had a miss, and just a few inches (MM in his hinge) and it would have ended very badly.
I chock this up to getting close to a bullseye with sever consequences of a near miss. He had a miss, and just a few inches (MM in his hinge) and it would have ended very badly.
Jehinten for the win! The top was already compromised from the serious blow that it received when it slammed into the spar. "Brushed" it my buttocks
I suggest you reread the entire thread Daniel because it was you who showed up and started insulting other members...We were having an honest discussion concerning someone making a bad cut, missing his lay, and hitting a spar. Something no true pro would ever intentionally do, and a mistake that can and does get climbers killed and valuables damaged. No one here was attacking Buckin Bill or personally insulting him.. Just pointing out and discussing the glaring mistakes made when taking this top...We had a potential learning moment here if we were simply allowed to continue discussing some of the very serious ramifications of doing something as silly as hitting nearby spars/trees with tops/logs.
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SomethingWitty
Arkansawyer
- Location
- LR
There is no way that you pay enough for me to prune with 4 poles. I'll just fucking climb it.
SomethingWitty
Arkansawyer
- Location
- LR
I read all the comments before I watched the video. He missed a little. He hit the top of the spar. That was a big damn top. I think I would throw one that size just to do it... but maybe not if I had to go up and brush it out first.
Sloppy. He always is. He's also a good guy and tough as hell. I have learned some tricks from his videos.
I bet it was a rush. I dropped a 90' dead red oak perpendicular to its lean today and got reminded (again) that it never stops being exhilarating.
I'd also like to throw out that if it almost didn't work, it worked.
There was a reasonable margin of error on the drop. He needed it. Not having a perfect throw doesn't matter as much without a perfect landing zone. It is still embarrassing to hit the shed, even without damage.
Sloppy. He always is. He's also a good guy and tough as hell. I have learned some tricks from his videos.
I bet it was a rush. I dropped a 90' dead red oak perpendicular to its lean today and got reminded (again) that it never stops being exhilarating.
I'd also like to throw out that if it almost didn't work, it worked.
There was a reasonable margin of error on the drop. He needed it. Not having a perfect throw doesn't matter as much without a perfect landing zone. It is still embarrassing to hit the shed, even without damage.
