Thoughts?

rico

Well-Known Member
Here's a little sail for you:



Jerry B mentions sail in FGTW, saying something to the effect that any limb will eventually get straight if it has enough time to free fall. There are a number of factors that will influence how exactly the sail on a large top (or any pieces) will effect it's rotation during the fall. Height is towards the top of the list. Length, momentum of rotation at separation, mass and balance of the piece are all factors that play.
The amount of sail, as determined by the branches left/removed is only one factor. Your statement that " stripping the top out because it causes your top to nose dive " is simplistic and does not account for the many other factors mentioned above.

Newton's Third Law of Motion states that for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction. That is the simplest way to determine the amount of force that the contact with the standing stem had on Billy's top. Any significant force , except a direct downward hit on top of the spar (which clearly didn't happen) would cause a horizontal push on the spar. That horizontal push would create a bending moment that would shake the shit out of the spar. Given the height of that spar, it wouldn't take much to get the it waving around.

The amount of force shaking that spar is equal to the amount of force that changed the direction, momentum and rotation of the spar during the fall. Did we see any big pieces of bark get ripped off the top or the spar? Did we see any movement in the spar after contact?

I had to look at the video in slow motion several times to verify that there was any contact at all. The movement of the spar after impact is almost imperceptible. That is the greatest evidence that the impact had no appreciable effect on the top. Your claim that the impact "stopped the top dead in its tracks" is absolutely ridiculous. You otherwise seem to have a good head on your shoulders but then you make these completely false claims that show that you are either a pathological liar, or have lost touch with reality.

That said: BILLY DID MISS HIS LAY.. the argument for that is simple and unarguable as well. HE HIT THE SHED and hit it pretty hard. So his " BULLSEYE" was bullshit.
Screen Shot 2020-05-23 at 7.37.31 AM.png
So much for a glancing blow Daniel. Can you imagine what that would look like if the camera were squared up with the top? And as the video proves it would have been impossible for "the top to land in line with its trajectory at the beginning of the fall", so upon impact the top bounced over to the right by a couple feet. The top certainly wasn't gonna go through the spar, so being the more movable of the 2 objects it had no choice but to do what it did. Meaning if that spar was not there this top would have landed multiple feet further to the the left than it did.

You ask how the cutting could have been improved
1. Do the job responsibly and safely by simply removing the existing spar before taking that top.
2. Do the job responsibly and safely by simply climbing higher and taking a much smaller top out of the Fir. He was already up there taking all those climb off after all....
3. If he really felt the need to do all that showboating then he needed to make damn sure he made a perfect undercut and a perfect backcut. Truth be told it really wasn't that tight of a lay (8-12ft) Did he misjudge a side lean? Did he simply miss sight his undercut, or did he fucked up and leave some bypass? Only Billy knows the truth.
 
Last edited:

Daniel

Well-Known Member
1. Do the job responsible and safely by simply removing the existing spar before taking that top.
2. Do the job responsible and safely by simply climbing higher and taking a much smaller top out of the Fir. He was already up there taking all those climb off after all....
3. If he really felt the need to do all that showboating then he needed to make damn sure he made a perfect undercut and a perfect backcut. Truth be told it really wasn't that tight of a lay (8-12ft) Did he misjudge a side lean? Did he simply miss sight his undercut, or did he fucked up and leave some bypass? Only Billy knows the truth.
All good points!
 

Daniel

Well-Known Member
Not exactly...

We agree that he made a lot of mistakes was showboating for the camera and add many other options that would have been proved his chances for a successful drop.

We agree that he hit the shed and we agree that that top could have swung wildly if he had had hit the spar directly.

We agree that he would have been better off with a mechanical advantage system to the Pole line

We agree that he should have checked his gun when the notch was finished

We agree that the snipe was ineffective in turning the tree to the right

We agree that hes pushing his luck

We agree that a shorter top would have prevented any chance of hitting the shed

We agree that brushing a top out like that is going to affect the way the sale turns or rotates the peace during the fall

We agree that it would have been safer for him to have a climbing line.

We agree that his laughing after taking the top out does not respect the fact that he just took the life of a beautiful tree.

We agree that all living beings will die one day and when we do we will be held accountable for our actions.

And we agree that we don't like each other.

Hopefully that's enough agreement on this one

As far is that slightest grazing impact on the spar affecting the fall of that tree in any significant way , we will just have to agree to disagree. Yes... it could have gone left another foot or two, but not much more than that. But even a foot or two left would have done significantly more damage to the shed, so maybe we agree on that too!

things are looking up
 
Last edited:

rico

Well-Known Member
Are we allowed to do that? I mean, with this virus and all the “social distancing”, wouldn’t a group hug be against the rules?
I didn't really mean it...I would probably be banned if I had actually spoke my mind?

By the by, I just saw the instagram pic of you standing on that spar with the crane ball above you...Great photo Reach!
 

Reach

Well-Known Member
I didn't really mean it...I would probably be banned if I had actually spoke my mind?

By the by, I just saw the instagram pic of you standing on that spar with the crane ball above you...Great photo Reach!
Thank you for the compliment! Unfortunately I was on the other side of that camera, that is Nick in the picture, he climbs for me full time.

I should also get on him and Tim, they manage that page. I had forgotten about it; I don’t do social media myself so I tend not to think about it, but upon seeing that there are still only two pictures there, I should tell them to get posting. If you want to see more pictures, look up our Google listing, that one I do manage. Or check out our website in a month, we have a new site going live soon with quite a few good pictures on it.
 

Daniel

Well-Known Member
I just watched again... listening for what they were saying about the shed on the ground...

wonder if Billy kept the saw idling after the cut to drown out the groundies talking about it.

he definitely got into a little revisionist story telling.... "At the end I decided I would snip that corner just so it would bump off there.... isn't that nice".

more truthful might have gone something like this . "we didn't enough pull on the line, so I had to thin out the hinge way more than I would have liked. So when I realized that the gun of the undercut was way left and the top was heading straight for that standing stem, which shouldn't have been left there in the first place, I had to steer it right with the backcut, but didn't have much hinge wood to play with, so I had to cut the left corner off carefully and just barely got away with that one. it doesn't. look like much damage to the shed, so we can replace a few shingles if needed..... isn't that nice"
 
Last edited:

New threads New posts

Kask Stihl NORTHEASTERN Arborists Wesspur TreeStuff.com Kask Teufelberger Westminster X-Rigging Teufelberger Tracked Lifts Climbing Innovations
Top Bottom