ol timer climbers show them pics

who says that is "current best practices"? and can you cite your data on "healthy and fit for decades longer than previous...." with SRT? Baloney. And I thought you were retired?
 
Vet, I'm probably more like you. I find it hard to let things go and I'm very nostalgic. And if it ain't broke don't fix it. It took me a good while to adopt this SRT business. To the point where I would choose DdRT over SRT even on a moderately high ascent because of the unfamiliarity of setting it all up.
Having said that, I've simplified my system now and pretty much use it every tree. It's easier on the body man. I promise. Using legs is better and something our bodies are already adapted to. My elbows are thanking me.
FWIW
 
I sure don't mean to start a flame war or argument here.

Look around and you'll see what BPs are...they follow ANSI Z133 or whatever regulations are in place. They're what you're likely to see at comps. They're what keep people from getting injured or hurt.

You and I can both go back to what were BPs decades ago. Many of those are laughed at today.

I can't site hard data...just ask my body, and other climbers how they feel if they've started climbing using current BPs. For me, SRT is one of the key changes that have kept my body from wearing out. Ask climbers who have made changes and have felt less worn and tired.

Just yesterday Pierce and I did a basic tree climbing demo for a landscape class at a tech college. In the morning we showed them a DdRT setup and body thrusting with natural crotches. Then after lunch we showed them how we climb. I use SRT exclusively, Pierce uses it for access then transfers to DdRT with a FC. After that we setup a rope/frog walker system for the students to ascend. We lowered them because we didn't want to go into transfers. ALL of them could see how much easier it was to use SRT for ascent. It was obvious to them that they would NOT want to use body thrust.

FWIW...no data...just observations.

Retired? On my good looks? Not yet, still working.
 
Tom Dunlap said:
I guess I'm one of those birds :cool:

I know that if a climber starting in the profession today climbs using traditional tools and techniques they're going to be just as worn out as the ol' time climbers. On the other hand, if they start out using current best practices, especially SRT, they're going to be healthy and fit for decades longer than previous generations of climbers.
Click to expand...
I can't agree with that cause I have living proof of my 85 year old grandfather whom has climbed on tuantline for 60 years and is healthy as a horse..he's going up a descent little sized maple to remove for a buddy this week coming up and not saying I agree with that climbing system for me... or haven't and don't appreciate all SRT has to offer . Just saying if your safe and poccess knowledge of the tree your working in.. You should be able to do the work and not kill or beat yourself up ! I'll try and get some pics if time allows me to get over to that jobsite and show you some living proof!
 
I have every BMP made and all the ANSI standards. I use srt up (wraptor) and change over if a big tree and use the installed drt with a zig zag if no wraptor nec with a pantin and a little thrusting on laterals (you maybe save a little energy and time I suppose). I hate the anchor line and am surprised no one has cut themselves out of a tree yet if in fact they have not. I do not agree (at risk of you describing disagreement with flaming and banning me again) with your assessment of comps. reflecting the norm or bp in day to day tree care ops. "Pierce transfers to Drt". The working the tree and not the entering the tree with srt is my contention and I think you WAY over portray its bennies (re directs...big deal!...2nd tie in is an upgrade imo) and dismiss its negs here on this forum...but it is your forum...and whatev.
 
Don't want to get in the middle of anything here. I think there's extreme benefits to working the tree srt too. The learning curve is no fun because of loss of productivity. And I'm a die hard DdRT fan. But I'm not going to try to change your mind vet. I just want you to hear it from someone like yourself. Hard headed and old school. Said with love :)

Anytime I get fed up with something or somebody on this forum I try to remember why I came here. To learn. So I guess, don't throw the baby out with the bathwater.
 
Aaron...I'm tickled to hear that your grandfather is still climbing! He's done a lot of right things during his life.

If there were a way to track the number of climbers starting in their 20's and still climbing in the 'ol' timer years' I'm sure that we'd see more and more in the future than in the past. Why? Because of better techniques and safety practices. Luck hasn't changed over the years.

My point about comps and BPs...either written or accepted in practice...is that the climbers who work like what we see there are much more likely to become our generation of Aaron's grandfather...or, you n me, TV!

If I had stayed on the course that I was following in my early 30's I know that I wouldn't feel as good as I do now. For the most part I'm no more achy these days. In fact...less!
 
lets paint an imaginary picture...you have a multi stem decurrent tree. I know you all picture yourself a comp climber in a contest tree on srt, but the fact of the matter is you all are not and the trees...are not (set up for a comp). You as sop go to the central top to prune that aspect of the tree. You work that stem to the point it is time to go up another stem. How does your srt get you up that stem? No different than drt...you climb that stem against the angle of your initial tip. You cannot climb your srt to get up the side leader and you cannot have set or accomplished a "redirect"...yet. You go up the side leader to work it and you set a redirect or drop thru a crotch to establish a permanent redirect. You have lost the benefit of the high initial TIP (for other leaders) or with setting the biner for the redirect...you have to go back up to remove your biner when done working that leader. Let's deal in reality here.

and I (tiptoeing?) disagree in your assumption that more climbers will have longevity than with drt as opposed to srt. You're feelings of non aching not withstanding lol. Very unscientific.
 
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Never claimed to have scientific evidence. Anecdotal evidence is all...but its mine, and validated by others too.

No problem with disagreement.

I have several easy ways of setting retrievable redi's from up in the canopy without going to the redi.

This discussion is vering off into a current style direction. Sorry about that, let's start a new thread or get back to the OP's topic.
 
ok TD, but just one more thing I have to add...on the "ole timer's" thread. IMO the most injurious thing to a climber which all or most fall into the category of repetitive use injuries is the fact that your lower body is very limited in the ability to move much while being held stationary in a saddle and all kinds of maneuvers and necessary to the job functions are going on above the saddle. Very hard on the hips, back and torso in general which is something almost impossible to eliminate in this trade no matter what system you use.
 
Its all about longevity... all forms of climbing have their time and place ..the man with the most sense on which to choose for any situation is the one who in my eyes endures and embraces....
 
Yesterday the students could see the advantages of a saddle with leg straps and a floating bridge. They picked up on the advantages after seeing a classmate climb or using one themselves. Neither Pierce or I even mentioned the differences. These are the sort of things that will reduce the bending and spine twisting that the ol' butt strap 4 d-ring saddles use.
 
No doubt a floating bridge has more ergonomic advantages than fixed attachment , but rope bends so just have to adapt through positioning practice. Placing your hips where they need to be ..all things that have came out in the past twenty years to change climbing as ol time climbers knew it ..have only let us take shortcuts to goals that need to be achieved in the tree ...making it more comfortable and faster along the way ..under whatever the circumstance or challenge the tree poses to us as the one lucky enough to work on it !
 
Aaron Cipolletti said:
No doubt a floating bridge has more ergonomic advantages than fixed attachment , but rope bends so just have to adapt through positioning practice. Placing your hips where they need to be ..all things that have came out in the past twenty years to change climbing as ol time climbers knew it ..have only let us take shortcuts to goals that need to be achieved in the tree ...making it more comfortable and faster along the way ..under whatever the circumstance or challenge the tree poses to us as the one lucky enough to work on it !
Click to expand...
An example might be not worrying about going over a certain obstacle because on a stationary rope system the friction is always the same in front of me.. whereas running rope system may create too much friction on the obstacle(s) that is tolerable for me to proceed to my goal ...therefore I may have to go back up and reroute to eliminate the the obstacles from impede ing my progress to the goal ....
 
Or on a limb walk far and low not feeling to climb back up as difficult possibly on 2:1 ..as long as you're utilizing a slack tending system that is ..watch a guy bumping his hitch back up as his goes can look mighty precarious at times ..that's where I feel the old timers were tougher and had to be extremely focused when limb walking ..I've seen where guys would just climb the rope and feed slack through once they got comfortable again ...dangerous as hell ..one slip and your going for a drop then a swing..
 
ARLO said:
Holy cow Tom! We were using Goldline Rope back in 1970. At least we had advanced to nylon! I would have been pretty nervous on hemp!
Click to expand...
I remember saying nylon came after hemp or manilla ,but my memory was corrected by my pop and treevet ...the esterlon was after hemp rope... then nylons came around is my understanding.. I was curious about this goldline rope you speak of ..was goldline the manufacter name or did it streak gold maybe both! ?
 
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