New Base Tie-In-Point

I agree with Reg. The simplest trunk wrap and tie off is the best system for me.

Maybe this is a generational approach. When I started doing treework trunk wraps for lowering was what we used. Learning how much friction can be gained by doing just a bit more wrap doesn't take long to learn. If an arbo can learn 'take three wraps' rigging they can learn how to lower a climber using a basal anchor wrap.

I DON'T RECOMMEND THIS...JUST A POINT OF DISCUSSION!

In any lowering operation enough wraps could be taken so that it wouldn't even be necessary to tie-off the tail. Make those wraps, leave the rest of the rope in the bag and climb---AGAIN>>>>DISCUSSION ONLY!---

Tying off or adding a belay makes a base tie more secure though.
 
To be honest, I use a bowline. Played around with the base ties but never incorporated it in my park because I'm rushing probably and never refined a system. Jeremy has created his base tie system and uses it every time. and I've sort of laughed at him. I see though that his system is better than mine and my system is not faster. His ability to use Gilbert to manage his rope is much greater than mine. I will see what I can do to change.
 
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To be honest, I use a bowline. Played around with the base ties but never incorporated it in my park because I'm rushing probably and never refined a system. Jeremy has created his base tie system and uses it every time. and I've sort of laughed at him. I see though that his system is better than mine and my system is not faster. His ability to use Gilbert to manage his rope is much greater than mine. I will see what I can do to change.

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And there is the beauty of the buzz.

Improvement.

Learning from others.

Just dont pretend you invented it yourself if you did not.

I know a good idea when I see it and many thanks to those of you with good ideas. That's why I sprung for an Oceans RW teather, it is a good idea.
 
We don't do much SRT, still in the learning/practice low and slow phase. However we do use Ddrt off of a false crotch that's terminated at the base. We use either a figure 8 with ears locked off and tied with half hitches, or a wrap with a running bowline. I often wonder on the effectiveness of a ground biased rescue system. We do alot of conifers (PNW) and if a climber was incapacitated in the tree they would get hung up on every branch on the way down. I guess it's better to have it and not need it than the other way. I'm all about simple is best.

We can't really trust our local Fire dept for rescue. The only time I know of was a climber that had a seizure in the tree. The FD came and stood around trying to figure out what to do so long the climber came out of the seizure and climbed down himself.
 
In thinking of the scenario. Yes a 230 foot line is something we should carry. I tie ropes together a lot but that is impractical. But I would only consider a 230 foot line if I had a very efficient way of managing it. Taking wraps is cumbersome and it eats up a lot of line. A good managing system easily allows you to climb the 40 footer with your base tie system. Jeremy is showing me how it works. We will see.
 
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In thinking of the scenario. Yes a 230 foot line is something we should carry. I tie ropes together a lot but that is impractical. But I would only consider a 230 foot line if I had a very efficient way of managing it. Taking wraps is cumbersome and it eats up a lot of line. A good managing system easily allows you to climb the 40 footer with your base tie system. Jeremy is showing me how it works. We will see.

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Carry on thinking about it if you want Kevin, because I wont be. I have a 230 ft length because many times I have to bigshot past a hundred feet. I could join ropes together too but like the idea of just one. Primarily, its just an access line, I take a second, much shorter line up with me.

Its all relative to your personal situation. Like, how many times does Jer's scenario unfold like that. And there's your justification. I get a lot of use out of that 230, so there's mine. Cant think of a single significant situation where i needed someone to adjust the length of my line either. I personally dont want a bunch of gay looking stuff at the bottom of my tree - No offense to anyone, its just how I see it.

I would assume also that Jer or yourself would have seen that situation coming, as his line would've been hanging at 10ft throughout his whole time working in that tree ?

So plenty time and opportunity to make adjustments without having his full weight on the line beforehand. In the case of either a termination knot or cinching type device, I would think pretty comfortable to deal with regardless.
 
cant argue on that. Ill check back in a few months and report back if I ever put myself together a slick base anchor. I have some thoughts.

until then its a running bowline and then maybe a butterfly. Jeremy did climb the whole second tree like that and that's how we planned on lowering him the whole time. There was no need to attach a second line as we knew it took all his weight and feed line into the system. The system would have been useless if he had been injured higher in the tree as there would not have been enough line to lower him. We work horizontally a lot through the trees. The first tree you don't want a lot of extra rope to deal with.
 
Gay as in happy and colorful, or gay as in homosexual? This is a confusing use of the word, maybe a different one would have been more descriptive.
grouphug.gif
elefant.gif
 
We use 300' static lines. We have used all 300 many times, on the east coast. The rope is in a bag. Use what you need, leave the rest in there. Passing knots, making a long rope out of two short ones is a pain in the balls. (pick a different word) Ha. We prefer 70M 1/2 ropes for ice climbing. Doing a lot of formerly 2 pitch climbs in one pitch. Long ropes are great, until you have to carry them long distances.
 
McSwan,

He's a brit. Same language, different meaning. He means F8's with multple backups are stupid. Brit English Gay=stupid.
Just don't tell him about your "fanny pack"
 
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Gay as in happy and colorful, or gay as in homosexual? This is a confusing use of the word, maybe a different one would have been more descriptive.
grouphug.gif
elefant.gif


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The gear is not homosexual, and it doesn't mean you are one if you use it. But not colorful either....and wouldn't be cool for me personally to be seen setting all that up. It doesn't matter. I know what I meant, and its not good.

But moving on....Im gonna reply to Kevins post. Macswan, I am glad you dont take things too seriously.
 
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We work horizontally a lot through the trees. The first tree you don't want a lot of extra rope to deal with.

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Well ours is the opposite....and often visible or verbal communication with groundworkers is very difficult....so better to have too much line than not enough. I would only ever put out as much excess line in front of me as Im gonna need....I wouldn't drop the whole hundred ft in a given direction if I only need to descend 30 ft below to acces a limb. Same as getting your ground guy to adjust the access as does Jeremy....only I do it for my self. I thought that was just normal whether DdRT or SRT!

So here's a few pics from today Kevin. Pretty typical pruning work for us. Big bunch of firs, tip reduction mainly.

9 pics, will take a little while to embed.
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So theres my access line all set. The blue one in the yellow bag is my second climbline. Little green line for rigging. grappling hook for moving between the tops.

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Scott taking out a dead Arbutus in the back

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On my way up to the re-di crotch.

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At the top now, my second line is set now and Im ready to start.

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So mostly handsaw work but my chainsaw is up there too, just in case. I'll hang it in a convenient spot.

My green fixed rigging line is at hand if I need it. I throw it out to the end of the limbs I need to prune, and then decide if Im gonna use it. Its also a good means to support a limb that I need to put a lot of weight on, or even as a second fail-safe attachment to support me for that matter. Just slide the friction hitch to the point in the line where you need it, and set the choker.

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Last cut on this particular tree. I could hold it easy enough but then Id have to limb walk back 15 feet before I could throw it to a spot where it wont break anything. Ground is full of lights and sprinkler heads.

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Grappling hook is set in the next tree now so I'll pull myself across. Good thing about tall skinny firs is that whole tops will bend a significant amount towards each other just by pulling hard on the on the grappling hook part of the line. So you bridge the distance by 8-10 feet at a time.

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Last pic of the hook. For those who dont know, you throw it over a limb and try to hook on something below the re-di. That way the hook keeps the same orientation throughout. Really easy to use.

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And thats pretty much the script for the whole job. Good planning is the key, as well as being able to work independently. Mixing up the SrT and DdRT throughout.

More to do on that same job tomorrow. We took out 4 trees there also today....with just pruning to finish now. Wish the rain would stop.
 

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Nice to see you finally enjoy a rec climb Reg, cool pics!

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Where's the joy on my face Brian ? Rec climb. Never.
 
That was really interesting. Those trees are so different than what we climb here in VA. Totally different style of climbing. I won't derail the thread by asking a ton of questions but that's for posting. Pretty cool
 
Reg,

jeeze man a toothed ascender, arn't you scared you are gonna shred the rope? You really should back that up a couple of times.

I need a closeup of your base tie in, the footloop from the very dangerous and non rated ascender is blocking my view.

Please excuse the sarcasm, it comes easy to me these days. Its below zero again, wasting time on the buzz while it warms up out there. The March sun has got some power, but it's got a lot of ground to make up from the clear night.

Pax,

Mark
 
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Reg,

jeeze man a toothed ascender, arn't you scared you are gonna shred the rope?

I need a closeup of your base tie in, the footloop from the very dangerous and non rated ascender is blocking my view.

Pax,

Mark

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Having been using that one for 3 years now, no Im not worried. Same as the toothed pantin, not worried about that either. Thanks
 
How can you say that's a nonrated ascender. It's a petzl and carries ce en and NFPA ratings. Toothed ascenders will only shred the line under increadibles conditions. Certainly a 1 man load will not do damage to the line. Put a pulley on it and try to pull up a huge log with a grcs. Probably. Is it really necessary to back up the ascender when he's tied in to his clbing line? If it slips he's not going anywhere. I use a dbl hand ascender just to hold on to on long climbs. It's not attached to anything but the line. If it slips or for that matter if my sweaty hands slip I'm still on my line so I'm not going anywhere. Not picking a battle here, just asking questions.
 
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How can you say that's a nonrated ascender. It's a petzl and carries ce en and NFPA ratings. Toothed ascenders will only shred the line under increadibles conditions. Certainly a 1 man load will not do damage to the line. Put a pulley on it and try to pull up a huge log with a grcs. Probably. Is it really necessary to back up the ascender when he's tied in to his clbing line? If it slips he's not going anywhere. I use a dbl hand ascender just to hold on to on long climbs. It's not attached to anything but the line. If it slips or for that matter if my sweaty hands slip I'm still on my line so I'm not going anywhere. Not picking a battle here, just asking questions.

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Steve,

Sorry man I was being totally sarcastic. I have never backed up an ascender. Some, as Frax would say, weiners, have felt the need to do so. I was trying to egg Reg on, teasing him into not being so politically correct on the buzz. Look closely at your ascender and see if you can find a load rating. I was also poking fun at Brian Kane's "study". My interpretation is poppy [pick a different word]. If you generate a fall factor 2 on to your ascender you have done something else very wrong and Dawin will select you out very soon anyway. It's above zero and I'm still an [pick a different word]. Sorry Buzzers.
 
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