bowline not as life support

Thanks for that info Norm. Had it not been for this thread that may never have seen the light of day.

I asked TCIA if they could start producing better reports including accident investigation results for us. This is the kind of useful data that will improve our safety awareness and in all likelihood drive the number of accidents and fatalities lower.
 
any kmot you tie loose will come undone . Any . I tied a bowline on the rigging bone today and lowered a Oak tree out over a Green on a golf course in Ambler Pa. Big Oak , heavy wind . Never got loose or came close to coming undone . I have spliced lines for the rigging bone , but just to see if the bowline could come undone in that situation , I used a knot , bunch of cry babies , tie loose knots and they come undone , really ? Triple locking beaners , doulble tie in , two hands on a saw , this must be a push for two knots on everything . What's next ? two saddles , I know a guy whose saddle fell off . O my GOD (#omg). TOMTHEKNOTMAN(#tool) says he ignores these replies , he lies ,just like every one who says they tied their knot correctly and it came undone . My knots don't come undone , am I lucky ? get real , they were tied right . I'd break a rope before , The splice or knot come undone . ( set up line,take the bait ) hem your skirts , don't show your knees . Always have Mommy on speed dial if your bowline comes undone , or #mommy I fkd up on twitter .
 
Norm that is vague info there , just like yo yo , two guys ( I'm not counting Daniels story , you can ) Did they fail the bowline ? Short tail ? loose tie ? high ? BOWLINE IS NOT COMING UNDONE . Tied properly . Don't blame the knot blame the can not .
 
Nobody cares, but let me waste some bandwidth anyway... I'll rely on a bowline any day for a top tie or a base tie on SRT, but I've been persuaded lately to include a Yosemite tie off. I used to think it was mostly window dressing but apparently not.
Come to think if it, a bowline was what i used for 3 years to attach my old split tail to a captive eye carabiner when I used a Blake's hitch.
 
Riggs, Im concerned for your safety and your reckless attitude now. Just trying to tell you something for your own benefit. A knot shouldn't have to fail for you to get the point. Learn from other peoples mistakes that have used a bowline as life support because the bowline knot has failed. (p.s.The knots in yoyo mans video and my video were tied and set correctly just not with somebody's body weight on it.)
 
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any kmot you tie loose will come undone . Any . I tied a bowline on the rigging bone today and lowered a Oak tree out over a Green on a golf course in Ambler Pa. Big Oak , heavy wind . Never got loose or came close to coming undone . I have spliced lines for the rigging bone , but just to see if the bowline could come undone in that situation , I used a knot , bunch of cry babies , tie loose knots and they come undone , really ? Triple locking beaners , doulble tie in , two hands on a saw , this must be a push for two knots on everything . What's next ? two saddles , I know a guy whose saddle fell off . O my GOD (#omg). TOMTHEKNOTMAN(#tool) says he ignores these replies , he lies ,just like every one who says they tied their knot correctly and it came undone . My knots don't come undone , am I lucky ? get real , they were tied right . I'd break a rope before , The splice or knot come undone . ( set up line,take the bait ) hem your skirts , don't show your knees . Always have Mommy on speed dial if your bowline comes undone , or #mommy I fkd up on twitter .

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If I have to wear two saddles I'm calling it quits.
 
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TOMTHEKNOTMAN(#tool) says he ignores these replies , he lies

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I turned you back on for the sheer comedy of it all. Turns out it was worth it.

-Tom
 
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I turned you back on for the sheer comedy of it all. Turns out it was worth it.

-Tom

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Turned him on, huh? And for comic relief?
grin.gif
 
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Norm that is vague info there , just like yo yo , two guys ( I'm not counting Daniels story , you can ) Did they fail the bowline ? Short tail ? loose tie ? high ? BOWLINE IS NOT COMING UNDONE . Tied properly . Don't blame the knot blame the can not .

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Keep in mind, this was 15-18 years ago, I think. I'm remembering what I can.
This is what I observed and was told. I didn't witness anything... It was originally a 4 person crew, pruning several 50-55' trees. Trees were dormant. When I got to the site, the rope (True Blue) was still installed in the tree. There were no knots in the rope. No one had touched the rope since the accident. I had to wait a day or so, to talk to the climber in the hospital.
Experienced climber, 5 years climbing. He told me he tied a bowline to his "D" ring to ascend. Nobody else checked his knot. There was no connecting link, the True Blue was tied directly to the "D" ring. Nobody else can verify that, either. Left a 10" tail. Body thrusted up. At approx. 35 feet level, he was free falling. He never lost consciousness, but felt excruciating pain in upper arm.
Did he indeed tie a bowline? I don't know. We had extensive training and documentation on the training for all positions.
That is what I was told and that is what is written in the accident investigation.
 
"Riggs, Im concerned for your safety and your reckless attitude now. Just trying to tell you something for your own benefit."

oh my , from this bowline thread , I am reckless ? cmon now , lets define "reckless" before you "define " reckless , you should first define " bullsh*T" and that my new bff , is for all our own benefit . Way to step up and offer advice , that's great , I'll make a note of it . I'm not concerned about your safety , I don't even know you . I appreciate you caring for me , but I'm good . 3 , 3 , yes 3 , Ill spell it for you THREE , have heard of someone with a failed bowline . WOW , stop the knot now ! shut up ! Tyler , my new bff , I'm worried about you and your gossip reading attitude now . My advice , my new bff , is , "tie it right , tie it tight "
BOWLINE IS A SOLID KNOT - HALL OF FAME KNOT -
belongs on the mount Rushmore of knots .
 
I did knot dress and set the knot properly or it wouldn't have come undone. It also should have been in back of a half hitch, so it was unnecessarily loaded (get it?). it was a rigging line taking out a large pine top... I still use the bowline in rigging without concern.. I just tie them better now.. I do not use it for life support, except as a basal tie which is thoroughly backed up..

there are better knots to use on biners and snaps, so the real question is why WOULD you use a bowline for that application?
 
I use a bowline for a top tie SRT, it has a yosemite tie off....works well...tie,,,dress,,,set,,, repeat SET SET...Tyler, Riggs is right the bowline is such an awesome knot...actually super awesome...good grief Jeff Jepson shows it off in Tree Climbers companion ( which all beginners should read )...come on....blah blah whatever
crazy.gif
 
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there are better knots to use on biners and snaps, so the real question is why WOULD you use a bowline for that application?

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In my case......habit.
I became habituated / addicted to the bowline. Have tried to quit; can't.
We all have our vices.......
 
I could be wrong, but I don't think YoYo ever claimed that it was not to be used as life support. I think he meant only to show a way in which it could be improperly tied (as in a hurry, not paying careful enough attention) and fail as a result. All the rest of this is much ado about nothing.

The bowline IS a great knot. I remember using it well--using the tail for a Blake's Hitch back in the day. If it is to be used as a terminal knot for life support, though, then some additional safety should be added. I think this is the point that is being offered--a safety point, not a defeater for all uses of the bowline whatsoever. Why is this so hard to understand? Riggs, help me out!
 
"I could be wrong, but I don't think YoYo ever claimed that it was not to be used as life support."

help me out ?,Riggs please .Okay... what is the title of this thread ? hint (thread title) and who started it ? (hint -Yo Yo ,) sup? kidding

I'll be in line outside for the long bus . Short bus is running five minutes late so GET in the Bow line . Best five minute of your life .
 
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