bowline not as life support

I use bowlines or variations multiple times a day. I've only saw one come loose (not untied) once, and only had one break once but we pushed the limits. It's a quick easy knot that's very secure if used properly. I wouldn't feel 100% comfortable tying it and walking away to have the line loaded, unloaded, and shaken for many cycles however.
 
Just about anything that requires a rope to be tied around anything... Rigging, dead-ending zips, sheet bend for passing ropes or saws. In my view while not directly life support it's damn critical. I also still will tie in with a bowline for a closed blake's system to double crotch with my tail if it's convenient. If I'm working the ground zipping big stuff I will do a quick z rig with bowlines.

It's quick, efficient, and in my muscle memory. I can tie it in any position or orientation. Yes there are other options, but I feel there is not any other specific knot that can do everything a bowline can.

I also view everything as life support, even if I'm not hanging from it. I don't carry any non rated gear on my saddle, it helps with the temptation of well I need x and don't have it buy y could work....
 
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Perhaps a slight derail- what do most arbos use the bowline for, anyway? The running bowline I get. Use it all day every day. Double Fisherman's, Anchor Hitch, Alpine Butterfly have uses. But the standard bowline? What situation is it commonly used in?

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- "The Tree Climber's Companion" says, "It is used primarily as a 'tie-in' or end-line knot, to attach the climbing line to a rope snap or carabiner."

Yeah I use the running bowline more than anything else. Definitely prefer a cinching knot for a climbing line termination or a tight eye splice. I have used the bowline as a loop to attach a Come-Along to and that sort of thing.

And now that I look at it "The Tree Climber's Companion" also says "The Bowline does have a tendency to creep and potentially work loose, particularly in stiffer and slicker climbing lines. Therefore, it is strongly recommended that the Bowline be made more secure by using the Yosemite Tie Off, especially when used as a rope termination with the split-tail climbing system."

I guess we're not done after all.
 
I'm not arguing against using it, just seems it's not a critical knot to know anymore. Like I said, I can see using it as a dead end for a zip as we both apparently do. Heck, to double crotch with my tail and a Blake's I will just use two half hitches. I do have to admit that when I used to climb on a closed system with Blake's I tied a snap hook onto my line with a well dressed and set bowline.
 
The midline clove hitch works great for double crotching with a Blakes too. We call the midline clove "the gatorade knot" because that's what we use to send drinks up to the climber.

Tree Climbers Companion also says, "A knot is never tied/set almost right. It's either tied exactly right or dead wrong. "

A bowline is fine in a closed loop system but not my preference for a termination knot. There are better choices. I've used it with 100% success though. Stiff rope, yeah it's trickier, but double check and double set every time no matter what you're tying.
 
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We call the midline clove "the gatorade knot" because that's what we use to send drinks up to the climber.

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That's great! I am going to steal that. That's probably what we use the clove hitch for 95% of the time.

The only time I have had a bowline 'fail' me is when I quickly tied a rigging line onto my saddle to climb to the top of a tree and looked down and found that it had come undone and was at the bottom of the tree.
blush.gif
I admit I didn't tie it like I would any other time, but It made me think...
 
RE: Dropped rigging line...

Had the same thing happen with a half hitch when I first started climbing. Did back to back half hitches after that... and of course properly set.
 
I've seen a few people that learned to climb using steel snaps with captive eyes using the Bowline for attaching the standing end of the climbing line to the snap. They then transition away from the snap towards a carabiner without a corner trap or captive eye, yet still use the Bowline. That's one place in which I'm not totally into the Bowline, since a self cinching knot is a much better choice on a normal carabiner. Other than that, the Bowline rocks. Running, on a bight, follow-through, wherever.
 
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really ? I can't remember the last New England rope I bought . all that aside , I'll buy it , give it a shake . Somebody have twenty feet to send me ? Sounds like you got a story to tell or a friend to defend . Wait ... I smell it . A roma !

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Here ya go! Just did it out of curiosity after reading all the posts.
Bowline Knot Test on the New England Escalator
 
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Set it tight and it will still work loose.
Some of you just don't wanna believe it can happen!

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Use the right knot for the rope construction you're using. In your video the Escalator looks super low bend radius compared to typical supple arb and rigging lines. If it isn't low bend radius it definitely wasn't set and the tail is way too short. Also... why no Yosemite follow through?

What it comes down to is Bowline is an awesome knot, sucks as a termination knot on a carabiner for a climbing system.
-AJ
 
Perhaps the accompanying soundtrack could be more somber and funereal? "Nearer My God to Thee"? A pastoral setting like a quiet country cemetery would also be an excellent backdrop.
 
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Set it tight and it will still work loose.
Some of you just don't wanna believe it can happen!

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I do believe it Pelorus. Especially with particular rope constructions. But I'd like to make a video of how I was taught to dress/set the bowline. There's a move that nobody else seems to make and I think the knot in the video would've performed differently if tied that way. Who knows? We'll see I guess. But please, if I say something stupid, call me out on it. I'm here to learn and I learn best from my mistakes
 
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Listen , say what you want about me , but TREEBUZZ has been online for a long time and this is not amateur hour , want to teach ... dot your I's and cross your T's . Your not the first person to back peddle . Want to teach bring your " A " game . For the record , we wouldn't be this far in this thread if I didn't point out how wrong the video presented a knot . An oil tank ? really ? hardest winter ever and a loose knot on a home breaker . Get real , please . That was one of the worst teaching videos I have ever seen , ever .
I'm not getting on that guys helicopter , sorry .

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I have enjoyed and learned from following this thread and making the video. As with most things you see on YouTube it can be worth what you pay for it or what YOU make of it.
"how wrong the video presented a knot"? Again, it was not a teaching video, or a knot presentation video it was a presentation of a real and potential failure.
Riggs I will be happy to refund your money ;-) BTW I don't fly helicopters and if you want to ride with me you'll have to buy a ticket.

Richard
 
It would take most reasonable people REAL effort to misunderstand what you have presented here, Richard. Thanks for showing this flaw in the knot--something I wasn't previously aware of.
 
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