Ash riddle

What Kevin is showing us is exciting and important. These ash trees in Detroit may hold a genetic answer that could benefit all of us in the future. Thanks for posting! Don't cut unless you have to.
 
TimBr said:
Interesting post. Do you think leaving a possibly infected tree might help the disease spread further? What happens to the wood from the diseased ash takedowns? I would think the powers that be would like to see all of that wood incinerated as quickly as possible.

I know some places have laws against transporting wood more than 50 miles unless it has been kiln dried, if I'm not mistaken.

Thanks for your posts on this subject, Kevin; it is all very interesting and scary stuff.

Tim
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My pleasure Tim

I know around here we had quarantine zone that you had to stay with in originally, but with the spread of the bug the zones spread and amalgamated so now it's more or less southern Ontario and northern ontario doesn't have any ash so pretty much we can move most places.
My mother in law works in the office at a saw mill and said that it was more (hotter) than just kiln dried almost baked at a certain temperature for a set amount of time therefore not every mill around could process and ship ash outside there area.

As a separate note what I'm hoping to do this fall/winter is an ash project. We are going to tag a severely declined ash (from eab) in our local town ships wood lot, there's lots.
The plan is to anchor the top to 4 adjacent trees, 1 in each direction, then air spade the root zone clear to see how the roots actually look then from there we can manipulate the tree to see how things react. Hopefully this helps us grasp things a bit better.
 
treevet said:
I don't know how you could know that. There is a program around here where Ash have been and are still being treated by the Company that produces Safari called the Valent Program. In a small town next to ours there are streets that have perfect (green) Ash as a result of this. They pay nothing. It only lasts so long.

I will have to back track and check but I was in constant email contact with the head of the EAB research program, Dan Herms, who I remember saying it was 100% kill up there of non treated ash. In my town being on the local Urban Forestry Board for the 5 years beginning infestation and I actually found the first infested tree...I know no ash are thriving like that one on your bike ride and none will continue to survive with out treatment.

To compare EAB (infestation) with DED (infection) is a silly comparison. No Ash in the USA has the defense (an odor in the phloem) to repel the borer having evolved with them like where the ash borer came from.
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Around here we tend to see the european ash do better than the white & green ash. I have no stats, numbers or proof it just seems like it to us.
 
In 2006 or 7, I did some public service for a neighboring block cutting down dead city ash trees. I dropped three stone dead ash trees and went to a fourth that seemed barely alive. A lady came out and said "don't you dare cut that tree down, it's alive and I've been looking at it for 15 years!" I said ma'am the ash borer has infested it and it will die. She said she didn't care. The tree is still there, it's still alive and th e suckers have completely covered up the dead crown. It looks like a fine tree with a bit of deadwood. She is still there as well and I am thankful I did not drop the tree.
 
There a lot of European ash here as well. and they seem a little hardier but they were definitly hit and a lot were lost totally as well
 
treevet said:
Genetic identicals of what.?....




I am sure that is total bs.
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Lol, if the trees were still a little alive then they weren't dead. I think we can agree with that.
Alive, sound, and healthy are all very different terms that people need to realize surviving and living is different
 
That is true. 100% of the trees have been affected. Most should be removed. But some are still viable, functional and still productive members of society.
 
treebing said:
In 2006 or 7, I did some public service for a neighboring block cutting down dead city ash trees. I dropped three stone dead ash trees and went to a fourth that seemed barely alive. A lady came out and said "don't you dare cut that tree down, it's alive and I've been looking at it for 15 years!" I said ma'am the ash borer has infested it and it will die. She said she didn't care. The tree is still there, it's still alive and th e suckers have completely covered up the dead crown. It looks like a fine tree with a bit of deadwood. She is still there as well and I am thankful I did not drop the tree.
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How strong are those branch attachments if you have to climb it 5 yrs from now I wonder? I know we deal with topped silver maples that'll shoot back up fast but the branch unions are usually sucky and prone to failure when they get taller.
 
KevinS said:
How strong are those branch attachments if you have to climb it 5 yrs from now I wonder? I know we deal with topped silver maples that'll shoot back up fast but the branch unions are usually sucky and prone to failure when they get taller.
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I don't know. I have not climbed many. Ash is very strong with excelent hing wood. They maybe weak as many of the trees have been virtually topped. Some still retain life at the outer extremities of their original form however.
 

This is a video I took 3 years ago on a typical ash lined detroit street. 10 years after bug. Little has changed although some of the stone dead trees have since fallen over. I should revisit this street with a follow up video.
 
KevinS said:
and northern ontario doesn't have any ash so pretty much we can move most places.
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http://www.ontario.ca/business-and-economy/types-ontario-wood

tree_species_distribution_map_-_ash.webp

Ash occur in the Clay Belt; North Bay, Temiskaming Shores, Kirkland Lake, Timmins

Also occur in; Thunder Bay, Kenora, Nipegon

EAB will be quite devastating in the North. Fraxinus gives opportunity to have a deciduous trees that is something other than a Populus spp. in this region.
 
In Minnesota there is a V shaped section with e the apex in the Twin Cities then going up
To the Canadian border. This V is chock full of black ash. When EAB jumps there I'm afraid the area will look a lot like the areas in the Rockies where pine heeds have killed. Lots of very visible dead trees
 
treevet said:
Genetic identicals of what.?....




I am sure that is total bs.
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It must be easy to sleep at night knowing that you know everything already. Living in a black and white world is just so much easier than considering there might be things that you can't comprehend.

In real life, you are probably as abrasive, short, and unpleasant as your online persona. I look forward to meeting you and verifying my assumptions.

SZ
 
Pretty unbelievable what happens when you just let the street trees go, that newer video would be great to show a village board or council what happens when you do nothing. Kinda paints a picture of how much of a mess Detroit is if they can just let it get that bad. We are about 9 years along with our infestation and we still have some trees hanging on, albeit I see more white ash clinging to life then green. Some of the Ash I see are so aggressive with the epicormics its easy to see how they could cling to life once the pressure from the bug decreases. Hell some of our removals from late spring and early summer will be a 15 ft tall shrubby mess of sprouts by the time we get to the stumps in fall, and a couple times I've even seen logs sitting in our yard start sprouting weeks after they've been cut down.
 
GrahamS said:
Pretty unbelievable what happens when you just let the street trees go, that newer video would be great to show a village board or council what happens when you do nothing. Kinda paints a picture of how much of a mess Detroit is if they can just let it get that bad. We are about 9 years along with our infestation and we still have some trees hanging on, albeit I see more white ash clinging to life then green. Some of the Ash I see are so aggressive with the epicormics its easy to see how they could cling to life once the pressure from the bug decreases. Hell some of our removals from late spring and early summer will be a 15 ft tall shrubby mess of sprouts by the time we get to the stumps in fall, and a couple times I've even seen logs sitting in our yard start sprouting weeks after they've been cut down.
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I wonder if that means that if you buried that log and watered it, it would grow back into a full sized Ash tree again.
 
Detroit would be a perfect case study for neglected forestry. I have no idea how much the city owes in lawsuits over trees fallen on cars and people. It's a daily occurrence and the only thing that the detroit tree crew does is remove fallen trees. I do think it is interesting to see how these ash t
 
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