Which injection system and why?

Also, the Rainbow system still requires pre-drilling but uses a slightly smaller hole.
Rainbow uses a 15/64" high helix drill bit for their injections, ArborJet uses 3/8"... the high helix allows for a clean cut and better uptake. I have done injections with all of the systems and no one is perfect, they all can leak if not done properly or you have a decayed area in the tree. Plugs are not required to get to get uptake or for compartmentalization on the wound... we dont use plugs or tree paint on pruning cuts... why use them for injection? What ArborJet doesn't tell you in they have a plugless system that uses a small drill bit, APHIS requires it for all of their ALB injections, ask the local AJ rep.

The moral of the story here is that you should do your research, request a demo from each company, ask about the pros & cons and choose an injection system that best suits you and provides the best results (for the tree). With that said, I always consider different treatment options before I decide on injection because the facts are, you ARE wounding a tree - is there a better option?
 
That is what I said.

As far as Mauget is concerned...results speak for themselves and in my vicinity...Mauget injections are keeping a lot of ash alive with very little failure and most of that is late start and improper tech.

Last note to self...EmBen IS TreeAge. You need to do a little more reading and a little more research prior to posting. Too many knowledgeable peeps on this forum to get away with careless info :endesacuerdo:
TreeVet, no offense, but EmBen is NOT TreeAge - TreeAge is EmBen. EmBen is the active ingredient and has been off patent for 2 years.
 

treevet

Well-Known Member
I've seen a demo with Rainbow's emamectin benzoate which is thinner than TreeAge and takes up noticably much quicker. I get very minimal .
You are taking stuff out of context son. It appeared to me Mr. Grandjean by this statement, was unaware TreeAge's active ingredient was also Emben...ahh nevermind...I am checking out of this thread of a direction of nowhere at this point. Smaller hole...winner Mauget. Effectiveness of application...probably a tie. Cost of injection apparatus...winner, Mauget. Ease of use in time to completion and uncomplication...winner Mauget. Know it alls associated with other systems...infinite.
 

UncleDon

New Member
I never felt I had time to follow TreeBuzz, but check in as visitor once in a while. I just happened on this thread and joined up in order to weigh in on this subject. I'm an old working arborist in the San Francisco - Monterey California region. I do a lot of PHC work and use stem injections as one component of my treatment options. I like to use the least toxic approach for the task at hand and prefer cultural corrections and OMRI listed treatments when appropriate, 'Caution' label spray materials when necessary, basal bark treatments are really useful for some issues, and I like the closed system aspect of stem injections when stronger chemistry is needed to get the job done. I don't oversell chemical treatments, in fact I talk myself out of more spraying than I do because most tree problems that I see are related to poor growing conditions, incompatible plantings, and poor soil and water management.

I don't do near as many injections as you-all with issues like EAB, but I service a fairly large geographical area and have to be prepared for many tree species and their pest and disease issues. In addition to 3 sprayers of different sizes, plus hand-helds and backpacks, I own an Arborjet Tree IV rig with extensions, a bucket full of about 25 ChemJet syringes, some Mauget Smart Shot Injectors, and I buy a flat of Mauget capsules or a liter bottle of Mauget or ArborJet loadable chemistry depending on the pest or disease and host species, and size of the job.

I find it best to have some options in my tool box, to best fit the job and to make treatment affordable for myself and for my customers. When choosing a stem injection treatment you have to consider several factors, the pest or disease to be controlled or suppressed and it's life-cycle, the host species, size and condition of the tree, soil moisture availability to facilitate uptake, time of year, time of day and weather factors, the size of the job (one tree or multiple trees), etc.

The TCIA injection summits are great, and I'd recommend attending one for a close look and comparison of the major players. For capsules, I've only used Mauget and like TreeVet have since the 70's. I believe the other capsule companies each have their strengths. I haven't used the Rainbow system which I think is good, but I like the Arborjet system and chemistry the more I learn and the more I use it; I think they are state of the art in equipment development and chemistry research, and I love the customer support. Dawn Fluharty, the PCA technical manager in my region is above and beyond helpful, she answers phone calls and emails promptly, and she actually came out on a Sunday, because that's when I had to schedule a job, to coach me through my first Monterey pine TreeAge, Tree IV injection for beetle prevention.

I love ChemJets for quick and easy injections for small jobs with loadable chemistry, the Mauget Smart Shots for more precise small loadable units. And now I'm really loving my Tree IV (and plan to buy a Quick Jet for this season and Arbor OTC injections). You can't beat the pump up pressure with the Tree IV when you need it, like for resinous conifers, and for not having to wait around for uptake. And one great feature of the rig is the capability of piggy-backing two chemicals without re-drilling. I got a late season call for tulip tree scale in a 32" dbh Liriodendron, an active infestation in summer, too late to expect uptake and control with Arena, my usual March soil drench treatment choice. The late summer crawlers were already out and I knew they would be setting in for the next season. Dawn advised me on a treatment plan, to set up my Tree IV rig and inject AceJet for fast control of the current season adults that were putting out copious nuisance honeydew, and then with the injectors still in place, to unscrew the bottles and load up ImaJet, an imidacloprid solution for next season long residual control. Double whammy, double season treatment, in and out in one hour.

Well back to my Thailand working holiday, first vacation in 4 years. I'm trying to help bring modern arboriculture to a land of machete hacking and beautiful, fragrant, flowering trees. I'll be looking forward to a new season and checking in on the TreeBuzz. don
 
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treevet

Well-Known Member
Treevet you are using imicide and bidrin?
If you can get em in early for eab Imicide is the choice. It lasts all season but is a slow mover. If you find a client that has called late and you want a quick hit. Bidrin is fast moving but short residual. Some with a very important tree do both treatments for added assurance. Also referred to as piggy backing I think.
 

UncleDon

New Member
Treevet, your tips on Mauget capsule use are great and show your level of experience. I've never reamed the tubes like you suggest, I'll try it next time. Others take note on the order in which he suggests proceeding: pressurize the caps before you set them, while you can hold them and control the compression tool angle. Anne from Mauget taught me that; I used to set the caps on the tubes and then pressurize them, and was getting a lot of breakage and tubes pulled loose because of the awkward angles. The 3rd generation caps are sometimes difficult to pressurize with the optimal two clicks, and some break, so I always figure in some loss and frustration, and possible exposure. Treevet's mega vice grips are sure to do the job but may be overkill; Mauget sells a compression tool that is similar, but made specifically for this task.

One note on capsule use; I don't use capsules for larger jobs or when I know I'll be using the same chemistry for multiple jobs in the season. Do the numbers for yourself, but I know it's much more economical to use the Mauget HP loadable liter bottles of their chemistry, or use Arborjet product liters or other manufacturer's chemistry with Chemjets or ArborJet or other loadable injection equipment. But your job or multiple job bottom line has to be able to accommodate the $500 / liter purchase minimum for some chemistry. I do the math and determine if the loadable method will reduce my unit injection site cost enough compared to capsule cost, to give my customer a break and/or make a little more for my business expenses per dbh unit pricing.

Another plus for Arborjet in my opinion is that Marianne Waindle, one of the brightest and most experienced injection technology scientists and researchers has gone over to ArborJet from Mauget. Marianne is crazy smart and super helpful and honest about what works and what doesn't. I understand that she is working on a line of OMRI listed botanical products that Arborjet is developing. For those who hold taboo for anything called chemical or pesticide, take note of these organic program compatible materials. This is one of the most exciting developments in our industry, and one of the things that keeps me going: Old dog new tricks sort of thing. don
 

treevet

Well-Known Member
As I think I pointed out before Don, the big positive about the caps (Mauget in my case) is that if you are doing a ton of treatments then you can install the units and leave them while you move on to other work. Some might not find this kosher but if they are being monitored by you while on that job doing other work or the client is monitoring them on their own volition while you move on and come back in the afternoon...well then the savings on non cap injection should become moot to all involved thru sheer productivity.

Also...the "overkill" does not happen with the vice grips if hi quality ones are used that maintain spread while not in use. Can't remember but a couple of destroyed caps last season.
 

UncleDon

New Member
Hey Treevet I understand. And I sure wouldn't contest the issue with someone like you with the years of experience you've had and doing the kind of volume you are doing, compared with my occasional use. Every practitioner has to find what works for them, and familiarity is a big part of being efficient and productive. I spent a thousand bucks on my Tree IV and two extension kits, and didn't use it for over a year because I wasn't confident I would be able to use it effectively the first time out, and I was too busy to get with the product support rep or experiment at home. Now with some practice and having done the math on loadable chemistry and per ml pricing, I'm raring to go. And seeing what difference a little more pressure makes at uptake speed for some species, and not having to wait around or leave injectors unattended, well that has convinced me to go with loadable injection whenever I can.
 

baumeister

Active Member
Treevet, your tips on Mauget capsule use are great and show your level of experience. I've never reamed the tubes like you suggest, I'll try it next time. Others take note on the order in which he suggests proceeding: pressurize the caps before you set them, while you can hold them and control the compression tool angle. Anne from Mauget taught me that; I used to set the caps on the tubes and then pressurize them, and was getting a lot of breakage and tubes pulled loose because of the awkward angles. The 3rd generation caps are sometimes difficult to pressurize with the optimal two clicks, and some break, so I always figure in some loss and frustration, and possible exposure. Treevet's mega vice grips are sure to do the job but may be overkill; Mauget sells a compression tool that is similar, but made specifically for this task.

One note on capsule use; I don't use capsules for larger jobs or when I know I'll be using the same chemistry for multiple jobs in the season. Do the numbers for yourself, but I know it's much more economical to use the Mauget HP loadable liter bottles of their chemistry, or use Arborjet product liters or other manufacturer's chemistry with Chemjets or ArborJet or other loadable injection equipment. But your job or multiple job bottom line has to be able to accommodate the $500 / liter purchase minimum for some chemistry. I do the math and determine if the loadable method will reduce my unit injection site cost enough compared to capsule cost, to give my customer a break and/or make a little more for my business expenses per dbh unit pricing.

Another plus for Arborjet in my opinion is that Marianne Waindle, one of the brightest and most experienced injection technology scientists and researchers has gone over to ArborJet from Mauget. Marianne is crazy smart and super helpful and honest about what works and what doesn't. I understand that she is working on a line of OMRI listed botanical products that Arborjet is developing. For those who hold taboo for anything called chemical or pesticide, take note of these organic program compatible materials. This is one of the most exciting developments in our industry, and one of the things that keeps me going: Old dog new tricks sort of thing. don
Wow! thanks for that input uncle Don. That was a very good criticism and also lean towards one of the main reasons I would recommend a loadable system.: What the hell do I do with those empty Mauget capsules. They have been sitting in my barn now for nine months somebody please help.
 

Ryan Thomas

New Member
Does anyone have a need for both a Quik-Jet and Tree-IV system? Is there anything a Quik-Jet can do, or do better, than Tree-IV?
 

JD3000

Most well-known member
It can be very fast on good uptake days but about impossible to use when hot and dry.
 
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