Ropin Album

[ QUOTE ]
These standards are made for the dullest tool in the shed.

[/ QUOTE ]

I disagree with that statement. If one of your employees came to you with an injury from a one handed cut, would you want to know if he could have done it in a safer manner?
 
"Didn't you have a bad chainsaw accident I can remember not long ago Tom? You are an old timer like me. Didn't you one hand before you saw the light?"

Touch wood...my noggin'...I have never been cut with a running chainsaw. When I've sharpened saw I've gouged my fingers sliding the chain on the bar. Another time a saw slipped off the back rack on myATV, flipped, and did a five stitch gouge on the back of the calve. Again...no running saw cuts.

The accident I had was with a log splitter...I WAS one handing, actually no-handing, the cylinder was set in detent for retracting. I reached in to flip a stuck piece of wood off the ram and my right hand got pinched. As a result my right pinky is, and will always be, impaired. Quite a mess.

Yup..back in Evil Tom days. I clearly remember when my climbing mentor, Gary Albig, said to me in a perfectly Albig-esque way, "YOu seem to use your saw one-handed alot.' Really...that is what he said. Since Gary rarely said things the don't have more meaning. I let the comment simmer in my head for a little while, realized that I did, and sheepishly said that I never realized that before. We drove back to the shop, about 45 minutes and we talked a lot about one-handing. This would have been around '95 or so. From then on I stopped one-handing. Wayyyy before it was in the Z. It makes soooo much sense. The work we do is dangerous enough if we follow good practices that it makes sense to do whatever we can to reduce risks even more.
 
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
These standards are made for the dullest tool in the shed.

[/ QUOTE ]

I disagree with that statement. If one of your employees came to you with an injury from a one handed cut, would you want to know if he could have done it in a safer manner?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes but anyone that works for me better have a good reason to one hand, climbing or not or they will get reprimanded. To ban one hand cutting is a little extreme I think and whats more unsafe in some cases imo. The hurricane we had in 08 is a case study.

Also do not think you can't get cut or kick back using 2 hands either. Body positioning and awareness of kickback quadrant and plane of bar location can virtually eliminate the possibility of injury with an experienced operator. Also don't forget one can get kickback with a bar within a larger than the bar-cut when pinched in a certain way in the kb quadrant.
 
I understand your position. Perhaps you could simply clarify what you mean by "dullest tool in the shed".

Perhaps what we should do here is have some proponents of "one handing when necessary" post some photos or videos of that said saw use in action. This could be commented on by the opponents of the practice.
 
Arborists cannot all be monitored for safety at all times. The solution is that if ANYONE present notices a safety issue, it should be brought up immediately. The work needs to stop and a solution to the safety problem must be found.

The tree care industry is sprawling. The crews would certainly agree that safety precautions need to be used if safety is the top priority. It is the responsibility of all of us to bring up infractions of safety rules.

MichaelOxman 2 years ago


This is a quote from the youtube vid Michael posted.. He's just like the Republicans... :)
 
[ QUOTE ]

The tree care industry is sprawling. The crews would certainly agree that safety precautions need to be used if safety is the top priority. It is the responsibility of all of us to bring up infractions of safety rules.

[/ QUOTE ]

Daniel, We can say the same thing about your chap use? It's only one cut. It's only just a stump cut?
 
Not to derail this fine thread, but...

How 'bout some pics. Here is my smashed pinky
I'll never be the same, my Hollywood career is over!
 

Attachments

  • 306902-smashedpinky(Medium).webp
    306902-smashedpinky(Medium).webp
    12.6 KB · Views: 97
[ QUOTE ]
funny how he one hands his saw yet he rips this tree service new one and says "one hand grip is a no no" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3zCWxblS4...mp;feature=plcp

[/ QUOTE ]


Josh. Funny? I'll tell you what's funny; You posting in treebuzz, yet it has only been a couple of weeks since you self banished yourself in order to mature enough so that you don't keep putting your foot in your mouth.

I predicted you would be gone for at least a month. I'll rephrase that: I was hoping you would stay gone for at least a month, not that you would appreciably mature in 30 days, but it would prove that when you say you are leaving treebuzz for a few years, you were semi-serious.

Think hard Josh about what you write here. People won't forget overnight.

SZ
 
I agree one handing a saw is a bad practice..I've got a bad habbit sometimes while walking out a limb and doing it..its pretty bad when I tell other climbers just starting out not to. I really try to make myself aware of it but sometimes its sooo hard! I should definetly lead by example when others are watching me. Sometimes though I believe it can be done safely...been doing it awhile now and haven't had an accident. I've got a buddy of mine (won't mention names) that cut his inside thigh above the knee cap two handing. He got something like 10 internal stiches and 16 external. So how could you expect to stop a saw with one hand. Body position has a lot to do with it. And always look at what is around the limb your taking. You sould know if there is another limb or obstruction your bar might come into contact with and kickback. I'm gonna show the guys the pic of my buddy's leg. Oh my buddy's been climbing for 15yrs or so and is damn good. He was just in a hurry and didn't see the little stub on the other side of the limb.
 
[ QUOTE ]
Daniel, We can say the same thing about your chap use? It's only one cut. It's only just a stump cut?

[/ QUOTE ]

Of course you can, you have, and no doubt will.. You don't see me posting videos of other companies not using chaps, and then mentioning that as part of a criticism of their work..
 
Were you faking chow when you ran into a red snapper? Owie.

Reference the movie "Hall Pass".....
crazy.gif
 
[ QUOTE ]
I understand your position. Perhaps you could simply clarify what you mean by "dullest tool in the shed".

Perhaps what we should do here is have some proponents of "one handing when necessary" post some photos or videos of that said saw use in action. This could be commented on by the opponents of the practice.

[/ QUOTE ]

"dullest tool in the shed"...least intelligent, poorest learner, least capable, most belligerant, most likely to not observe safety....come on man...

Anyhoo pal, here is whatcha lookin for. Have at it, as I know you will, but you are not likely qualified to carry my jock when it comes to making bucks, length of safety record, wealthy high level clients, etc. etc.....just keep that in mind.

This is life in the real tree world for most of the arbs that just have a 2 man crew for decades and decades...cutting and holding and tossing, holding the tip of a log so it doesn't hold wood and swing backwards into the roof, etc., headlocking and one handing...etc etc.

My brain knows exactly just how much my hand and arm can handle by thousands and thousands or reps over the years.

Here is a decent size century old sug. maple with verticillium wilt. It is still a viable tree on the late 1800's property (my wife grew up in this house) even after being cut back. One handing going on because I am and almost always have been just a 2 man crew. Don't feel sorry for me because I live in a 400k house, have mass equipment and toys and have made millions over the years with just me and a gm.

The cut backs are obviously over the wires but it could just as well be over a slate roof or a high value landscape etc. Lots and lots of cuts. Not going to attach a rope to every one and 2 hand cut...duh. Not going to say I do either just to be part of the pack on the Buzz.

Also...and please take NOTE of this...not going to EVER let my climber do this and not recommending this to anyone. As I have said before...I am not trying to teach anyone anything on forums. I just like to yak it up with peers.

My, in the miniscule amount of time over 40 plus years I have used one, climber is not going to one hand because safety standards prohibit this and if he were injured then I would be completely liable. I understand this fully and cover my as s.

I am not breaking ANY laws, ordinances, standards, religions or rules of any type in this vid. I am the company owner for 4 decades and not subject to "dullest man" regs. as I am not an employee.

You can see in these typical cuts (vid taken a couple or three years ago) that at NO time is my hand or arm or body (in bucket) in any jeopardy of being cut. The plane of the bar is being intentionally located so that kick back can't hit me, my hand and arm and shoulder...all out of range of kick back or any other scenario. Kick back will travel in the plane of the bar.

You want to have enough hand and wrist strength to do this all day and then some when storms hit. My regimen is to torque a long handled sledge hammer around in all direction every couple of days and wrist curls and hand grip exercises.

No bucket lanyard on but that, along with hard hat use has changed in the last couple of years. I now use them both.
I read in TCI accidents where a guy got a bucket stuck under a limb and did not know it and when it released he was shot out like a pea from a plastic spoon and that did it for me. The hard hat just because I have made my gm wear one so I wear one to be fair. If my gm was injured without a brain bucket on, again, I would be completely liable.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S1RxgCLLEEg
 
I one hand all day long from the bucket, and keep a handsaw (always) and short line and shackle&sling with me most of the time too. So there are other options.. I go a lot smaller lately with anything, one handed, as the big stuff was hard on the left elbow... The snap cut and finishing cuts with the handsaw work very well in many cases..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pXzhS6ww794

Check out the 3 cuts from 1:12 to 1:23.. easy enough to just give a little push with one had to clear the patio.. could have been snap cut as were many other pieces, but such a simple, quick, easy and safe move, IMO... Those pieces also could have been lowered off themselves... BUT WHY?
 
[ QUOTE ]
I one hand all day long from the bucket, and keep a handsaw (always) and short line and shackle&sling with me most of the time too. So I have options.. I go a lot smaller lately with anything I one hand as the big stuff was hard on the left elbow... The snap cut and finishing cuts with the handsaw work very well in many cases..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pXzhS6ww794

Check out the 3 cuts from 1:12 to 1:23.. easy enough to just give a little push with one had to clear the patio.. could have been snap cut as were many pieces, but such a simple, quick, easy and safe move, IMO... Those pieces also could have been lowered off themselves... BUT WHY?

[/ QUOTE ]

stop this vid at 3:22

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E-elOeOd4Ak&feature=related
 
[ QUOTE ]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pXzhS6ww794

Check out the 3 cuts from 1:12 to 1:23.. easy enough to just give a little push with one had to clear the patio.. could have been snap cut as were many pieces, but such a simple, quick, easy and safe move, IMO... Those pieces also could have been lowered off themselves... BUT WHY?

[/ QUOTE ]

that's just the real deal production tree work etree, climbing or bucket.
 
[ QUOTE ]
stop this vid at 3:22

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E-elOeOd4Ak&feature=related

[/ QUOTE ]

Interesting that you put up that particular vid. Thank you!. This is one of the climbers that I was referring to earlier in the thread, because he likes to make the same cut as ox, when blocking down a spar, pushing with the left hand, as he finishes the cut one handed ( see the cut at 3:38)..

Pat is a phenomenally productive climber, with a perfect (to my knowledge) safety record. When the suggestion was made that he stop that practice, he dismissed it, so I put that (IMO) very bad cut in the video purposely, in hopes that the feedback about that cut from you all, would convince him to change. Unfortunately, of all the criticisms of this video, which there were plenty, NO ONE mentioned that.

Its a pretty quick edit, so you have to watch carefully at 3:38.. there is clearly an unintentional bypass of the face cuts, on a slightly back leaning piece, he really fights with the top, trying to push it over against the lean, with a seized hinge, and keeps cutting one handed until the hinge fails and he is able to push it off. VERY BAD form IMO. He gets away with it because he is so big and strong. Still, IMO there is no excuse for cutting such a bad notch, which gets back to basics. Get your basics down pat (get the pun?) on the ground, and you won't have to deal with such problems in the air.

Then check out the next two cuts.. at 3:48 he makes an deep notch, well into 1/2 the diameter of the piece, which makes the fairly well balanced top go unassisted as soon as the back cut is made. Then at 3:52 he has made the notch and back cut, puts the saw away, and pushes with both hands.. Those two cuts are perfect examples making proper cuts, which completely avoid the need to one hand. Its fast, easy and much safer.
 
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
stop this vid at 3:22

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E-elOeOd4Ak&feature=related

[/ QUOTE ]


Pat is a phenomenally productive climber, with a perfect (to my knowledge) safety record. When the suggestion was made that he stop that practice, he dismissed it, so I put that (IMO) very bad cut in the video purposely, in hopes that the feedback about that cut from you all, would convince him to change. Unfortunately, of all the criticisms of this video, which there were plenty, NO ONE mentioned that.

He got fired from The Care of Trees for breaking too much stuff actually.
 
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I understand your position. Perhaps you could simply clarify what you mean by "dullest tool in the shed".

Perhaps what we should do here is have some proponents of "one handing when necessary" post some photos or videos of that said saw use in action. This could be commented on by the opponents of the practice.

[/ QUOTE ]

"dullest tool in the shed"...least intelligent, poorest learner, least capable, most belligerant, most likely to not observe safety....come on man..."

I think what I should have asked is, "If someone chooses to follow safety guidelines, does that make them a dull tool?"

"Anyhoo pal, here is whatcha lookin for. Have at it, as I know you will, but you are not likely qualified to carry my jock when it comes to making bucks, length of safety record, wealthy high level clients, etc. etc.....just keep that in mind."


That's rather presumptuous. And I think if you look over some posts I have entered, you will see I'm not confrontational. This is a discussion forum. I came to discuss. Come on, man...

"This is life in the real tree world for most of the arbs that just have a 2 man crew for decades and decades...cutting and holding and tossing, holding the tip of a log so it doesn't hold wood and swing backwards into the roof, etc., headlocking and one handing...etc etc.
My brain knows exactly just how much my hand and arm can handle by thousands and thousands or reps over the years.
The cut backs are obviously over the wires but it could just as well be over a slate roof or a high value landscape etc. Lots and lots of cuts. Not going to attach a rope to every one and 2 hand cut...duh."

I can see your method may have been faster, but was it safer? Even if that job took you an extra 10 minutes (arbitrary number), would you not have the millions that you have now?

"Not going to say I do either just to be part of the pack on the Buzz."

Neither am I.

"Also...and please take NOTE of this...not going to EVER let my climber do this and not recommending this to anyone. As I have said before...I am not trying to teach anyone anything on forums. I just like to yak it up with peers.

My, in the miniscule amount of time over 40 plus years I have used one, climber is not going to one hand because safety standards prohibit this and if he were injured then I would be completely liable. I understand this fully and cover my as s.

I am not breaking ANY laws, ordinances, standards, religions or rules of any type in this vid. I am the company owner for 4 decades and not subject to "dullest man" regs. as I am not an employee."

Which makes this discussion somewhat pointless.


[/ QUOTE ]
 

New threads New posts

Back
Top Bottom