Ropin Album

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That's rather presumptuous. And I think if you look over some posts I have entered, you will see I'm not confrontational. This is a discussion forum. I came to discuss. Come on, man...


I can see your method may have been faster, but was it safer? Even if that job took you an extra 10 minutes (arbitrary number), would you not have the millions that you have now?


"Also...and please take NOTE of this...not going to EVER let my climber do this and not recommending this to anyone.."

Which makes this discussion somewhat pointless.


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You are correct...I was unnecessarily presumptuous and confrontational I suppose. I apologize.

I don't HAVE even close to millions that I have earned over the years lol'ing. Don't think it is safer but safe none-theless. I think 10 minutes is a vast under exaggeration but, hey, whose timing this stuff?

And, yes, it is somewhat moot, this discussion, if only company owners and insured subcontractors can arbitrarily choose when and where to one hand and all employees may have to wait management's acknowledgement prior to pulling off the famed hander. Too small of a group to dedicate an entire thread and all these posts to, no?
 
I think I'm sensitive about this since I saw my brother have a couple close calls due to one handing. We are an LLC, which means neither of us are employees, and he can tell me to go to hell, and I can say the same right back to him.
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After that, we go right back to work just the same. It's painful to watch, especially someone you love, operate in what is a more or less lazy manner that could lead to an injury or worse.
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I don't think what you posted (sugar maple over utilities) was lazy, and I can see how you were able to position yourself to remove fairly small pieces quickly with numerous cuts. I can also appreciate and respect your years of experience, which is something that an owners manual or safety guideline cannot address.
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I had hoped the discussion could lead to something more like what you would have wanted to see from an employee of yours in that situation. Maybe another day...FWIW, since the tree was "viable", maybe quickly set a natural crotch rig line down the spar and cut out pieces (manageable w/ 2 hands, short enough not to contact conductors) without lowering, put saw in scabbard, disconnect rig from branch and toss...?
Honestly, I don't wish to beat the subject into submission, nor do I wish to influence a change in your practices, as I am quite certain you will enjoy the rest of your career without injury.
And finally, "YES", too small a group to dedicate an entire thread to.
Thanks for coming back for discussion. I appreciate that!
Stay safe, David.
 
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I think I'm sensitive about this since I saw my brother have a couple close calls due to one handing. We are an LLC, which means neither of us are employees, and he can tell me to go to hell, and I can say the same right back to him.
mad.gif

After that, we go right back to work just the same. It's painful to watch, especially someone you love, operate in what is a more or less lazy manner that could lead to an injury or worse.
crazy.gif

I don't think what you posted (sugar maple over utilities) was lazy, and I can see how you were able to position yourself to remove fairly small pieces quickly with numerous cuts. I can also appreciate and respect your years of experience, which is something that an owners manual or safety guideline cannot address.
cool.gif

I had hoped the discussion could lead to something more like what you would have wanted to see from an employee of yours in that situation. Maybe another day...FWIW, since the tree was "viable", maybe quickly set a natural crotch rig line down the spar and cut out pieces (manageable w/ 2 hands, short enough not to contact conductors) without lowering, put saw in scabbard, disconnect rig from branch and toss...?
Honestly, I don't wish to beat the subject into submission, nor do I wish to influence a change in your practices, as I am quite certain you will enjoy the rest of your career without injury.
And finally, "YES", too small a group to dedicate an entire thread to.
Thanks for coming back for discussion. I appreciate that!
Stay safe, David.

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you too my friend.
 
tree vet,whats your address? I justthrew up on my keyboard.I want to send it to you , wash it , send it back , Please. Went from Ox's tardo video to a one handed liars thread. Made me sick .Any key board will work .Thanks in advance .
 
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tree vet,whats your address? I justthrew up on my keyboard.I want to send it to you , wash it , send it back , Please. Went from Ox's tardo video to a one handed liars thread. Made me sick .Any key board will work .Thanks in advance .

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send it over son. I'll wash it off with your mom's panties. she got another pair here.
 
I'm sure she does.I just know when i Know .Till that response I was on the fence .100 percent sure you are full of sh*t . I love Momm jokes too . Stick to tree work and your bs. Smells like it , writes like it, is it , your the treevet , cmon , gotta do better than momma jokes . panties ? mom ? stop beating around my mamas bush . your full of sh*T ! 3 to 1 , takers ? now he's treebet
 
I didn't have time to make a vid to show a better option, BUT I found one...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DfLwcUDCNzA&NR=1&feature=endscreen

check out the cut at around 3:25... Graeme makes a deep notch, well over half the diameter, then is easily able to make the back cut, with very little change in body position, and the top simply falls off the hinge, no pushing, no one handing, no pull lines.. just good basic cutting technique.. That's the good lesson here... no need for all the nonsense..
 
Drop zone that size, nothing to worry about and a rarity when it comes to urban arboriculture.

The truth is wood is unpredictable and "good basic cutting techniques" alone is not the answer.
 
if you look at Ox cutting a few chunks off that tree, or most other situations where arbs are chunking down wood, there is very little issue with drop zone. That is the whole point of chunking wood.. cut them small enough to fit.

Even if the DZ is an issue, or you are cutting bigger pieces and rigging them down, you get prefect control of having the piece fall to the face with this technique.. Good cutting technique precludes the need to cut with one hand and push with the other. Its that simple.. there is no excuse for it.

I'd argue that with suburban arboriculture, its not the lack of open drop zones DZ, but the lack of basic falling skills and knowledge, that is the real issue. No disrespect intended rope, AND I've seen your saw handling in a tree. I'd put you in the same category as OX... you need to work on it.
 
Thanks for your opinion, it is most helpful.

For those interested in more knowledge, I purchased Gerry Beranek "The Fundamentals of General Tree Work" and have read it now approximately 3 times.
I have also been learning from his Series 3 Videos "Working Climber".
Every minute and every page is complete with practical and academic knowledge supplied by Mr Beranek and his colleagues in a way that is clear, concise, coherent, and complete.

School is in session and pay attention cause they ain't messin.
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He is also entertaining,humorous and articulates in way that we all should aspire to.

For you all that really want to
Soar with the Eagles.

http://www.atreestory.com/index.php
 
Gerry's book is a great resource... you really gotta read carefully to glean all the info that is tucked away in there..

The elephant in the living room here is that a highly experienced climber/faller like Ox (and on the west coast too) is making such poor basic falling cuts in the tree.. That is a huge problem in our industry and no one is doing anything much about it. IMO the problem is 10x worse on the east coast...
 
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Thanks for your opinion, it is most helpful.

For those interested in more knowledge, I purchased Gerry Beranek "The Fundamentals of General Tree Work" and have read it now approximately 3 times.
I have also been learning from his Series 3 Videos "Working Climber".
Every minute and every page is complete with practical and academic knowledge supplied by Mr Beranek and his colleagues in a way that is clear, concise, coherent, and complete.

School is in session and pay attention cause they ain't messin.
wink.gif


He is also entertaining,humorous and articulates in way that we all should aspire to.

For you all that really want to
Soar with the Eagles.

http://www.atreestory.com/index.php

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Wonder if he knows anything about tree care? Is he a Certified Arborist? I'd be way more interested in that subject myself. Doesn't he have a chapter on pruning? Anything enlightening?
 
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Daniel- Does this distinction also apply to wearing chaps while running a chainsaw on the ground?

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Do as Daniel says ! NOT as Daniel does!!!

Remember: Your gutter is in the box boyscout remote tripping big jon!!

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Huh? I always use two hands when starting a chainsaw. I can't comment on what happens from there.
 
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stop this vid at 3:22

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E-elOeOd4Ak&feature=related

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I remember the one thing Pat broke at the care of trees...his toe..LOL! I met him at the titty bar when his foot was in a cast from that experience.

Another thing I recall is him dropping a spar and putting it through a window while the homeowners were watching an eagles game....Pat pops his head in a says "can I get one of those hot wings" LOL

I love Pat...nothing but love for Chocolate Thunder!

Pat is a phenomenally productive climber, with a perfect (to my knowledge) safety record. When the suggestion was made that he stop that practice, he dismissed it, so I put that (IMO) very bad cut in the video purposely, in hopes that the feedback about that cut from you all, would convince him to change. Unfortunately, of all the criticisms of this video, which there were plenty, NO ONE mentioned that.

He got fired from The Care of Trees for breaking too much stuff actually.

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I feel we are doing a diservice to the industry and especially arbclimbers.

Ignoring or masking the problem and denying users of top handled saws the information and knowledge to use the saw safely and successfully is dangerous!

Letting beuracrats dictate what we can do in the tree in hopes we do not get hurt is only protecting their butts.

As an employer, potentially you could be liable for not training and instructing for proper one hand use because the climber was injured with two hands on the saw when one was the better choice and for all intents and purposes it is a widely acceptable practice.

and so It may (kick) back and bite you in the butt.
 
The ANSI Z133 committee is hardly compose of 'bureaucrats'. It might have been a while since some members have been on the sharp end of the rope but they all have a good understanding of work practices.

Equating 'widely accepted practice' with the best practice doesn't have legs. There are innumberable examples that can be used...seat belts? speeding? no helmets?
 
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The ANSI Z133 committee

It might have been a while since some members have been on the sharp end of the rope

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ain't that the truth!
 
If they are applying rules than they are bureaucrates.

Yes-No?

Are you saying than these are not rules and only guide lines.

And if they are guide lines than some one needs to guide and more specifically educate for what is a widely accepted practice.

Your examples are of personal protection and that is not what we have here.

Tools and techniques is seperate from ppe.
Seatbelts and helmets can be omitted in certain cases as well as the necessity to speed to avoid accident and injury.

Opposable thoughts and bringing the two together to happily marry is what is necessary here.
 
http://www.rickstreeservice.com/tree-removal-onthejob.cfm

Here's another video showing similar bad technique of cutting with one hand and pushing with the other.. interesting that the voice over says something about "expert skill and safety", just as this dangerous practice is shown.

NO way to isolate this video, so you have to click on the 9th video, that is the third column, third one down.. Picture of climber on hooks.

18 seconds shows the bad cut..
 
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