Rigging a rotting tree over a new roof

Rangerdangers tree wasn't all that bad. Looks like a typical included bark fork tear out. No rot there, though lower down looks a little suspect???

Its the dose that makes the poison. Small sections with low impact rigging seem to fit the bill from the armchair : ) Lots of room to build a cushion with the brash to dump the trunk wood.

Some things look worse than they are and vice versa. I had a job recently that had very heavy timber ontop of brittle decay at the base. Looked sound in the last 3 foot until you cut a disc and pressed the center to watch it disintegrate. A shell of about 1" thick sound wood. That was it on 30" DBH of Oak. An old decayed fungus body (Laetiporus sulphureus) and very poor woundwood alerted me to the danger. Turned out quite complex with the rigging, which made for some interesting pics and vid.

I should stress that IMO, 'cut and hope' and false bravado scenarios are a recipe for disaster with extreme trees. A well developed sixth sense and respect for the unknown are still required after the scientific absolutes and contingencies are considered.

If I can get in a crane, I get in a crane. If I can't get in a crane, its priced and prepared for accordingly - steady, surely, catchy monkey...

If I don't get the job I breathe a sigh of relief and pray for those that do.
 
Laz, let's see the pics!

jp
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Err... maybe another thread.
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I'll put it up on my website gallery when I get the chance. It was the same place, and the tree was the same trunk size as the tree that is already discussed there.
 
Laz , here I can't agree with you more . I just don't understand why you would let someone cut something and you know he will get hurt . The tree doesn't look that bad from the pics , but letting an inexperienced climber take it down changes everything . It makes me wonder if you knew he was gonna get hurt or did everyone learn something at the same time . If Was a young climber in that same situation , I would've learned two things . 1; don't make a cut like that 2; I have no guidance on the ground , I'm on my own
 
Yeah, its unfortunate, but we still have a lot of that "Let him learn the hard way, That'll teach him." mentality around here. Another stumbling block we have is the guys with a 100 yrs experience won't listen to a thing someone younger or less "experienced" than him says.
 
So whaddaya do with the guy who, after being warned of danger, ignores the warning and risks danger to himself or others?

If I see someone doing something dangerous and suggest a safer alternative... and they give me the finger? I might give them another chance after a serious discussion, but one more incident like that and they would be history. How can you risk your business and reputation trying to mentor someone who doesn't want to be mentored? I agree with Mangoes that Leadership is always the best way to deal with difficult people but it doesn't work with all people in all situations. An individual has to have the will to learn or follow.

It's a sad statement but it's true... Some people only learn the hard way and some people never learn at all.
 
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Well, no offense to any tree company here in Lexington, but nmodt of them around here suck. They don't perfrom the proper techinque, safety, etc. And we wanted to keep the cost low. The tree was pretty much sound for the removeal, etc. And yes, that climber in the limb walking photo knows nothing of what he was doing. He dosen't understand alot of basics, like keeping the slack put of your line, lanyarding in, etc. When they were taking out the half that fell he was tied in to the main tree, and was cutting a limb UNDER TENSION and it flipped the piece he was standing on. He too a swing into the trunk and was ok, but my Dad and I were glad to see him take a swing/hit and show him how important it is to keep slack out of your line, and be carefull when cutting a limb under tension. We just hope he learns from these little incidents and trys not to let them happen again.

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Oops! Thanks for bringing this post to my attention Riggs - my reply was to the first post, I just skimmed the rest. Didn't notice this
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Of course, I agree with you 100% - helping to alter this kind of attitude is what the last 10yrs of my career has been all about - as i said, cut and hope, bravado and lack of expertise matched to a tree like that are a recipe for disaster. Besides the moral issues, its risking your firm's reputation when the pack of cards starts to fall.

I hire just a couple of specific guys I trust to work the ropes on such jobs. These are guys I've mentored and know the ropes. More than that, they are ex- mountain rescue, and understand all too well consequences of ill considered actions. You get to learn new stuff too like the alpine clutch - great for swiggin ropes.

I always do the climbing. Not because others aren't capable - far from it - but because I wouldn't put them to such increased risk, even for increased pay. Its a personal thing more than professional.
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Surprised to see you saying you would climb and distmantle that tree from a rope and harness Laz2.

Surely a risk assessment would rule out climbing? on the grounds of excessive risk of injury or death.

Its a platform/bucket job.
 
"If I can get in a crane, I get in a crane. If I can't get in a crane, its priced and prepared for accordingly - steady, surely, catchy monkey..."
 
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"If I can get in a crane, I get in a crane. If I can't get in a crane, its priced and prepared for accordingly - steady, surely, catchy monkey..."

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A crane still puts you in the tree, hanging from your rope and harness, unless you are talking about using 2 cranes - one for you, one for the branches/timber?

'catchy monkey' - is that a new technical term?

What exactly does 'catchy monkey' mean?

Does it mean that your a monkey and if the tree fails the groundies will 'catchy monkey' ?
 
I'm still trying to figure out someone in Scotland can authoritatively judge the safety of a tree in Lexington, KY from a few pictures...

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Surely a risk assessment would rule out climbing? on the grounds of excessive risk of injury or death.

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Are you implying a risk assessment wasn't done? What definitive evidence do you have to support your own long distance assessment of "excessive risk of injury or death."?
 
Surprised somone with your webcrawling skills couldn't track down the origins of the phrase Paulo was alluding to?

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Softly, softly catchey monkey As discussed in Eric Partridge's "Dictionary of Catch Phrases." Partridge says it means "Gently does it!" and probably appeared in the late 19th century. Origin is hazy because the phrase was largely "neglected by the editors of the relevant works of reference." Partridge quotes a paraphrase by Wilfred Granville, "Dictionary of Theatrical Terms" (1952): "Stalk your prey carefully; or, generally, to achieve an object by quiet application."

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Seems a fairly straightfoward suggestion to undertake very difficult and potentially hazardous removals with the utmost caution and care.
 
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I'm still trying to figure out someone in Scotland can authoritatively judge the safety of a tree in Lexington, KY from a few pictures...

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Mmmm...let me see, could it be that half the tree recently crashed out and the remaining half now has a major structural defect which is severly compromising the load holding capabilities of the stem?




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What definitive evidence do you have to support your own long distance assessment of "excessive risk of injury or death."?

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Blinky, if those pics of that tree are not sending out the message to you, 'don't climb' then I seriously think you should re-assess your approach to workplace safety.
 
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Surprised somone with your webcrawling skills couldn't track down the origins of the phrase Paulo was alluding to?

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Softly, softly catchey monkey As discussed in Eric Partridge's "Dictionary of Catch Phrases." Partridge says it means "Gently does it!" and probably appeared in the late 19th century. Origin is hazy because the phrase was largely "neglected by the editors of the relevant works of reference." Partridge quotes a paraphrase by Wilfred Granville, "Dictionary of Theatrical Terms" (1952): "Stalk your prey carefully; or, generally, to achieve an object by quiet application."

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Seems a fairly straightfoward suggestion to undertake very difficult and potentially hazardous removals with the utmost caution and care.

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Makes you wonder what lifes all about.....doesn't it?
 
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