One Handing a Top Handle Chain Saw? Yes or No

Private Tree Ordinances, good, bad, or ugly?

  • It's good for the trees and for me

    Votes: 2 15.4%

  • Good for the trees but a pain for me

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • could be of value but useless in it's present form

    Votes: 1 7.7%

  • a necessary evil

    Votes: 8 61.5%

  • Bad, bad, bad....

    Votes: 2 15.4%
  • Total voters
    13
who wants regulation? Not me, I have worked in dangerous highly regulated industries, that sucks. I really would hate to change careers again. Some pencil neck dweeb telling you the craftsman what is safe and what is not, him having absolutely no experience with the trade just a piece of paper saying he's qualified you with ten years in the business. If you want that, then f you and the horse you rode in on, just sayen'. I want more climbers to be safe, do the job right, and companies to follow the rulz; not because they have to but because quality work in our line of business is better for everyone and everything involved. good climbers= good work = nice trees= a nice place to live= a nice world to live in=a happy planet. so: good climbers= a happy planet. do good work and do it one tree at a time. worry about good work and good work habits and the bottom line will take care of itself.
 
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i am for smaller gov less interference in our lives . keep the regs out !!!!!

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You'll do as you please. No amount of discussion will change that.

something that a friend of mine says in his safety talks:

Every safety regulation is made with someone's name on it. do you want one named after you?

Go and read 'The Jungle' by Upton Sinclair...look back in history to see where the workplace was without regulations. We are better off because of workplace regs. if not, too often employers would put employees at risk. Even now, when employers are aware of regs they don't abide by them. I know that first hand! And, I know the consequences to employees who were put in compromising situations. Being a whistleblower isn't a great place to be.
 
There's two kinds of one handing... one makes you crazy and the other seems like a "good idea at the time"..

Hard to define though... kinda like pornography.. you know it when you see it..

I've seen youtube videos of newbies with poor body positioning, unnecessarily one handing the saw over their heads like they were waving a flag.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_1wfCGPNlC0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BJvRRPuTm1c

come to mind..

I've seen big strong climbers with low tie in points and low angles on rigging lines, reach for one handed cuts from real awkward positions, that scared me A LOT... When that pieces comes off the cut funny, is it gonna push the running saw right back into the climber? Who knows..

Yet for veteran climbers the vast majority of one handing seems perfectly acceptable..

can we really expect a guy with 30+ years experience to be held to the same standards that a newbie is taught?
 
I had a college professor say "rules are for fools for rules sake"

If you understand the resoning behind the rule then you should be able to understand the hazards involved. They need to be there for the inexperienced. I dont one hand a saw and see no need for it in removals. I always seem to be able to find a way around one handing a chainsaw even with pruning with better positioning.
 
Yes...hold them to the same standards. Experience doesn't hold water.

But...the difference is the thought process and skills to stay out of danger. Too often low skill/knowledge climbers make poor decisions. There are solutions...this is what I anchor to. Exhaust those solutions not bypass them.

Otherwise its no better than having Homer Simpson run the controls of the nuke plant. How long had Homer worked there? and he still made bad decisions.
 
Tom, I have to agree with the holding corp. to account then we will see the upholding of regs. Right now it is far too easy to skirt the regs whether it's the voluntary ANSI standards or the OSHA mandatory regs. I see too often an attitude of safety eats into the bottomline so its not done. Then there's the individual who complains about comfort. Helmets, chainsaw pants, etc... are all too hot. Should we be wearing Bermuda shorts, no shirts and sandals?

The rules are made and vetted by industry experienced individuals not just pencil pushers.

Here's a video made by one of the largest mining co.'s in the world. The guy in the video is the president.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WtCjL9t33NM

The mining industry and it's safety record lead to the creation of workplace safety regulations. Interestingly, when I read the annual reports of large mining co.s safety records are prominently featured.

When one says it's my choice and my life I can do what I want, stop and think about those who are closest to you. Parents, children, siblings, spouse, partner, friends... What is the impact your injury or death has on them. I have seen it in my cousin whose father died when he was decapitated by an explosion. Decades later the loss of him still effects her.

Is that the legacy you'd be happy to leave behind?
 
A fair point Rob and for myself, a difficult question to answer. I like risk, I like being able to safely accomplish risky jobs. If I die or get hurt doing what i love rather than wasting away in a hospital bed, that's a good legacy.

Death is an essential part of life, just like pain and joy. I will not change everything I do just to live longer if that means watering down what is to me, an existence that's already too safe.

I like safety on the job because it's professional. We aren't supposed to leave blood on a customer's property... it's just bad form and it raises our insurance rates.

I don't think one-handing is inherently unsafe. I think sloppy, fast working behavior is unsafe and if you COMBINE that with one handed cutting you're setting yourself up... cuz I've done it.

This is a job where you can assess your risks before you make a move and choose your tactics accordingly. When you fail to recognize and control risk is when you make bad mistakes. Two hands is a good way to mitigate the risk of a saw cut but sometimes I choose to take the risk because I've weighed it.
 
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OK, cool.

Then someone complete my upper TIP while out on a 45 degree separate leader, catching/speedlining 8 inch wood heads, without one hand on their body line tending slack as the ride begins?

What if I want my saw running in one hand to cut me out if the leader below the catch point fails, or splits?

What if I want all options ready and available to save my sorry hide if things go south mates?

jomoco

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Can one of you by the book fellows complete my scenario above with two hands on your trimsaw without gravity making you look silly?

I've heard your talk, and suspect I can prove you wrong.

jomoco
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How about I just tell you that what you describe just is'nt an issue for me. That should suffice. I've been a climbing arborist for 35 years. I've never been cut with a chainsaw. I've never been flipped upside down. I'm sure it's because I'm not as good as you are. Or that I havent done the same level of treework as you have.
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Obviously PrimeApe, you arent at the professional level of Jomoco... I mean really, he took a leather tube sock and cut the end off it... He is the father of ingenuity..

He keeps his saw running so that with his spiderman reflexes he can cut himself out of the tree AS IT IS FAILING BELOW HIM. Can you do that? I think not.

I am pretty sure that arguing with a fool makes you a fool as well.

/thread
 
So the fact that Reg, Rog and I are removal specialists that one hand our trimsaws for the specific purpose of maintaining a stable cutting position, cuts no mustard with you simply because you don't do the same level of strategic removal work we do?

You ignore the poll, and those that have been there and done that for decades?

Please explain your pretzel logic if possible?

jomoco
 
Post up some pics and vids of your work then 223!

Let's see a real pro walkin the walk rather than flappin your jaw?
IMG_1474-1.jpg

Please do.

jomoco
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I'm in the same tree as Prime Ape and 223 I guess :(

J...do you argue with your dog too? How about your computer?

Your scenario isn't one that I've faced. If I were ever to think that a TIP or any part of my support system, tree or gear, were likely to fail...I'd stop to reconsider. That sort of restraint keeps me in the same tree as my udda bruddas.
 
You guys don't get it still. Your upper TIP is a completely separate leader from the one you're lanyarded on to that's supporting the catch load, that if it were to fail for any reason, only your ability to cut yourself free from that leader, by cutting your own lanyard, will allow your upper body line TIP to prevent you too from hitting the ground due to weakly attached multiple main leader decurrent tertiary growth.

Maybe the reason you don't get it is indeed because you don't or can't do truly technical removals?

Where's Gord on this poll anyway?

jomoco
 
You are so right man... I am sorry. I work for the largest residential tree care company in the entire world but we dont do technical removals.

Or maybe I dont put myself in a position where I am on a leader thats gonna break out beneath me.

Take some more time and find some more complicated hypotheticals to prove your point.

Oh and leaving a saw running after the cut has nothing to do with one handing the cut itself. Additionally if the leader I am on is breaking and pulling me down, frantically swiping towards my manhood with a running chainsaw is about the worst idea ever.

Invest in a simple panic snap, and keep the saw turned off hanging on the hips bro.

http://www.bigdweb.com/images/8465.jpg
 
Well said Chip. It's the thought process behind why we are going to do something in a specific manner. There is enough inherent danger in what we do. I think the big concern is that we see too many in any business looking for yes and no answers and a set way of doing something so one need not have to think about it and process information. The old "don't think, do" mentality. This is obviously not the case with professionals such as Jomoco, Reg, Roger and, yourself. In this discussion you've clearly demonstrate that there is a thought process that leads to a rational decision. You are working within the reg since it does allow one handing where it could be demonstrated that it's the safer option.

FWIW, I've been there done that Jomoco and it isn't always easy to use both hands. One handing is in the bag of tools but one that I do my best not to make my go to solution.
 
Oh Brother! Been there, done that and more as far as technical removals. You're welcome for me following recognized safe work practice and having zero reportable accidents in 35 years of arboriculture as a climbing self employed business owning arborist thus helping keep your insurance premiums down. Perhaps that isn't a consideration for you. If you don't pay insurance premiums you wouldn't understand. And by the way.......mine's bigger
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I'm out
 
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