One Handing a Top Handle Chain Saw? Yes or No

Private Tree Ordinances, good, bad, or ugly?

  • It's good for the trees and for me

    Votes: 2 15.4%

  • Good for the trees but a pain for me

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • could be of value but useless in it's present form

    Votes: 1 7.7%

  • a necessary evil

    Votes: 8 61.5%

  • Bad, bad, bad....

    Votes: 2 15.4%
  • Total voters
    13
I think it's a personal choice and not the sort of thing that requires regulation. If your company chooses to disallow one-handing, that's different but in general, it's no one else's business.

It's definitely not for everybody, neither is using a polesaw in a tree... or throwing a line one handed. What about two hands on a handsaw? They cause a lot more climber injuries. This could go on and on with little side arguments about insurance rates and stuff but it's basically a philosophical thing and we will all see it differently.

You keep individuals safe through education and training. Regulation of personal safety rarely works long term because people don't form new habits unless they REALLY WANT TO.

Regulate organizations, not individuals. The reason is, groups have different motives and behaviors than individuals. They will do things no single member would ever contemplate.
 
I know more people who have been seriously cut using handsaws than chainsaws. And...we all know a LOT of chainsaw users!

If I can't trust my groundie with my life...I get a different groundie...whether that's nineteen feet below me or 90'.

Blinky is right....regulate organization, not individuals.

There is verbiage in the Z that allows supervisors to 'change the rules' if they feel that there is a safer way of working. Be careful of using this authority though. At times this opt-out has been seriously misused leading to putting workers at risk.
 
So you think that you should go out and charge a customer the same rate for performing the same job as I do, when you are UNABLE to comply with the standards that our industry has agreed to comply with?

Because you want to talk about take up and flex and rope this and that... Walk out there, bend your knees, cut and dont fall off. Stop complaining.

ANZI z.133.1-2006 6.3.7 When operating a chainsaw, the arborist or other worker shall hold the saw firmly with both hands, keeping the thumb and fingers wrapped around the handle.

Obviously though the hundreds of years of experience collectively held by the men who wrote the rules pales in comparison to your lifetime achievement. I mean really, you invented a leather rope condom.
 
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The results of the poll speaks for itself.

It's like South Park!

"You will respect my authority!".

jomoco

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61% yes and 39% no does speak for itself!

It's a personal decision and nobody else's business.
 
That verbage found in 6.3.8 :

"Arborists shall use a second point of attachment (for example, LANYARD or double crotched climbing line) when operating a chain saw in a tree, unless the employer demonstrates that a greater hazard is posed by using a second point of attachment while operating a chain saw in that particular situation. Using both ends of a two-in-one lanyard shall not be considered two points of attachment when using a chain saw."

Has absolutely nothing to do with running a saw one handed. There is no opt out for 6.3.7 its black and white. One way is wrong and the other way is right. If you need to break the rules than do it... I am not perfect, I do it but I wont preach thats its the only way. It is laziness and hurried work.
 
What does any of your spleen have to do with maintaining a stable cutting position during dynamic rides with an upper TIP?

Logger's have been chucking their topping saws and pushing for all they're worth against the spar to move as one with the tree during the ride for over half a century!

Rather than get slapped by king kong in the face!

Accept democracy, and the poll results folks.

jomoco
 
Frankly, and this is gonna piss off some of my friends, I don't give a sh_t what the standards say. I didn't agree to them. I view standards as a starting point, as in, 'learn this first, then develop yourself as you see fit'.

The idea that I can tell another climber that what they're doing is WRONG because a committee said so seems ignorant to me.

Behaving safely and promoting safety within our crew is part of a leader's job... but the reason that person is a leader is ostensibly because they have demonstrated JUDGMENT... not the ability to quote standards.
 
J,

Logging ain't arborculture...don't muddy the discussion. We've been working for years to get OSHA to look at arbo work as a distinct profession with our own rules.

One of the books I'm reading is 'The Words Lincoln Live By' by Gene Griessman. It's a book that I bought at the Lincoln Memorial on 9/21/01...the Pentagon was still smoking, the Mall was bristling with machine guns and big men in dark suits and glasses.

The passage that I just read this morning included this, in Lincoln's words:

"Let every American...swear by the blood of the Revolution never to violate in the least particular the laws of the country and never to tolerate their violation by others"

In the discussion:

"...Lincoln believed if individuals disobeyed laws with impunity or simply ignored them...is to encourage anarchy or dictatorship"

And...

"Even bad laws, 'for the sake of example, should be religiously observed' until they can be repealed or changed"

It might be thought too lofty to abide my Lincoln's concern for following 'The Law' but, for me, that is a strength of America, and, by example, the strength of having laws and regs in our profession.

223TREE has shown the strength of the Z and appreciates the struggles that have gone into making the Z a good document. There is an opt out available. No one is telling you what you have to do, it shows you a safe way of doing our work.

The poll is just that...a poll. If we opted to base what we want to do on polls and public opinion we'd have anarchy and a dictatorship.
 
OK, cool.

Then someone complete my upper TIP while out on a 45 degree separate leader, catching/speedlining 8 inch wood heads, without one hand on their body line tending slack as the ride begins?

What if I want my saw running in one hand to cut me out if the leader below the catch point fails, or splits?

What if I want all options ready and available to save my sorry hide if things go south mates?

jomoco
 
Nor am I Tom, I do appreciate the Z, own a copy and refer to it... but I don't consider it gospel. And now for the long awaited and much needed derail; from the one hand-two hand debate...

Lincoln and I do not agree on that issue of law.

I WILL NOT abide authority I don't trust. I follow leadership, not laws or rules. Perhaps the strength of Lincoln's leadership would persuade me.

Very few modern laws are rational in my opinion. They frequently take this country in what I think is the EXACTLY wrong direction and I know for a fact that they won't be overturned or revised to make them rational (because it's NEVER happened). So rather than cast a meaningless vote in bought elections, I choose to comply only when it suits me.

The nation DOES NOT work the way they taught us in civics. The business of keeping people riled up about non-political issues like abortion, gun rights and gay marriage is all it takes to completely circumvent due process. They can do whatever they want in 1000 page laws while we endlessly debate things like flag burning and whether or not a woman has the right to control her own body. It's absurd and anybody buying into it is part of the problem

I don't trust the US Government in it's current configuration... in fact, I think anybody that does is out of their mind. It's proven to be anything BUT self correcting.

I expect laws to become more onerous for individuals while the big organizations are given ever more freedom to do whatever they want, including controlling that very machine making the laws. They own the government now, Citizens United is the bill of sale.

Call me an anarchist or outlaw or whatever but all I really am is a guy who wants to live with his family in peace.

I don't need control or gobs of money, I don't hurt anybody or anything if can avoid it. But I do cause hurt, I try to compensate by being helpful. To me, that's the only real law.

Wrong is hurting someone or something... right is everything else.

I have only one corollary to that... You cannot live on the face of this planet without hurting others.
 
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Call me an anarchist or outlaw or whatever but all I really am is a guy who wants to live with his family in peace.

[/ QUOTE ]

So was Randy Weaver.
 
I'd heard Lincoln was good at chopping and splitting firewood.

Didn't know he climbed or one handed trimsaws though!

Don't go startin civil wars with a pistol yu hi falootin rebs!

Or I'll poll axe yu murican style with a Yankee cannon!

How long's this poll open Ropeshield?

First row, fire!

jomoco
 
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[ QUOTE ]
Call me an anarchist or outlaw or whatever but all I really am is a guy who wants to live with his family in peace.

[/ QUOTE ]

So was Randy Weaver.

[/ QUOTE ]

Probably true, I don't know a lot about ruby ridge but I do remember thinking it sounded like clear cut entrapment by a bunch of FBI zealots. I guess sometimes a low profile isn't enough. If they came at me I can't say I would do much different because once they put a bead on you you're life is ruined anyway.

My thing is to simply not attract attention and live humbly and peacefully.



Derail SUCCESSFUL!
 
I wonder if Randy Weaver ever one-handed his chain saw?
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Heart of the matter as I see it now.

One is we have regulations that we all can agree to disagree on.
Two is the sad truth, our industry is unregulated. We do not have the respect of the Public and Private.

Its a cowboy industry with the fastest and most accurate draw winning.
Knife, Gun or top handle pwr saw.
Yeehaw!
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