One Handing a Top Handle Chain Saw? Yes or No
- Thread starter RopeShield
- Start date
TreeCo
Carpal tunnel level member
The personal attacks are sad.
From the poll:
Yes to one handing
48 62%
No to one handing
29 38%
From the poll:
Yes to one handing
48 62%
No to one handing
29 38%
bonner1040
Branched out member
- Location
- Boston
So you want to talk about this great democratic poll do you... Well lets compare the constituencies of the buzz community and the Z133 committee.
First we have:
Rope Shield, jomoco, frax, bigwood, macswan 223tree, swingdude, treehumper, tom dunlap, fireaxe, treespotter, tr33climb3r, chris girard, oldoakmen, fireaxe, hesanarborist, scrat, h4stir, primeape, norm hall, gerald beranek, bzrman, wheel loader123, symbioun, top hopper, the x man, mdvaden, tomthetreeman, jeff cochran, blinky, treeco, just a tree guy, daniel, all mark, wulkowicz, climber 020, live free or die, urban tc.
Who came to a 60/40 split and dont agree.
On the other hand we have the leaders of our industry:
Peter J Dubish, Jim Rooney, J George Klinger, Ralph Tompkins, Sean Gere, Dieter Paries, Nick Fiscina, Andrew Salvadore, Gil Niedenthal, Patrick H Flynn, Joe Bones, Jim Penneather, Don Blair, Joe Engberg, John Hendrickson, Joe Tommasi, Mark 'scott' McDaniel, Herschel Hale, Cary Shepherd, Tim Ard, James Tomaseski, Kurt Groenendaal, Bruce SMith, Ken Palmer, Daniel H. Oberlies, Allan Fraser, George Mellick, John D Terrault, Katryn Shaw, J daniel Sullivan, Michael A. Daughters, Jim Cass, TIm Bushnell, TObe Sherrill, Mike Dirksen, Randall Harris, Matthew Randi, Paul Markworth, Peter Gerstenberger, David Walls, Frank Smith Jr, Dennis Davis, Frank Castillo, S. Dale Crutchfield, Tom Mayer, Dennis A Beam, Drew Beam, Keith Sheriff, Jamie Goddard, Richard Hildbrand, Steven P Cornish, Steve Chisholm, H. Dennis P ryan, Tim Walsh, Richard Abbott, James Allard, Herschel Hale, Robert Harder, Ethel Hugg, Ed Johnson, Gordon King, David Shaw.
To me it is pretty obvious where my trust should lie. I have said it before I will say it again: I have used my saw without both hands I likely will again, but I do EVERYTHING I can to avoid it and train against it with new climbers. If we can eliminate the behavior we mitigate the risk. My problem isnt with the one handed cutting itself so much as the attitude that it is perfectly fine. We dont need people citing complex, ridiculous hypothetical scenarios from a holier than thou pulpit of 'i am the most technical tree man ever'.
We need a commitment to doing it right, everytime, every day. The company that I work for which is a bit larger than Jomocos 3/4 brain, 1 man operation has around 5 fatalities a year. Some people believe that is unavoidable, I believe that we can get all our men home to their wives and if we cant we are sure going to try. The sad thing is we have to fight this tremendous uphill battle because of people like you that want to beat your chest and give reasons why you and others are beyond injury, so skilled you are invincible.
A company like mine logs close to 15,000,000 (yeah million) man hours a year... Lets say you have 40 years on the job, injury free, working 3000 hours a year... that 120,000 hours. We log that every two days 'bro'. Your record, experience, words, skills and accomplishments not only mean nothing to me, but pale in comparison to the acts of countless men that have gone out and done it the right way, every day.
I am tired of your crap. Why dont you go find some other industry to pollute.
First we have:
Rope Shield, jomoco, frax, bigwood, macswan 223tree, swingdude, treehumper, tom dunlap, fireaxe, treespotter, tr33climb3r, chris girard, oldoakmen, fireaxe, hesanarborist, scrat, h4stir, primeape, norm hall, gerald beranek, bzrman, wheel loader123, symbioun, top hopper, the x man, mdvaden, tomthetreeman, jeff cochran, blinky, treeco, just a tree guy, daniel, all mark, wulkowicz, climber 020, live free or die, urban tc.
Who came to a 60/40 split and dont agree.
On the other hand we have the leaders of our industry:
Peter J Dubish, Jim Rooney, J George Klinger, Ralph Tompkins, Sean Gere, Dieter Paries, Nick Fiscina, Andrew Salvadore, Gil Niedenthal, Patrick H Flynn, Joe Bones, Jim Penneather, Don Blair, Joe Engberg, John Hendrickson, Joe Tommasi, Mark 'scott' McDaniel, Herschel Hale, Cary Shepherd, Tim Ard, James Tomaseski, Kurt Groenendaal, Bruce SMith, Ken Palmer, Daniel H. Oberlies, Allan Fraser, George Mellick, John D Terrault, Katryn Shaw, J daniel Sullivan, Michael A. Daughters, Jim Cass, TIm Bushnell, TObe Sherrill, Mike Dirksen, Randall Harris, Matthew Randi, Paul Markworth, Peter Gerstenberger, David Walls, Frank Smith Jr, Dennis Davis, Frank Castillo, S. Dale Crutchfield, Tom Mayer, Dennis A Beam, Drew Beam, Keith Sheriff, Jamie Goddard, Richard Hildbrand, Steven P Cornish, Steve Chisholm, H. Dennis P ryan, Tim Walsh, Richard Abbott, James Allard, Herschel Hale, Robert Harder, Ethel Hugg, Ed Johnson, Gordon King, David Shaw.
To me it is pretty obvious where my trust should lie. I have said it before I will say it again: I have used my saw without both hands I likely will again, but I do EVERYTHING I can to avoid it and train against it with new climbers. If we can eliminate the behavior we mitigate the risk. My problem isnt with the one handed cutting itself so much as the attitude that it is perfectly fine. We dont need people citing complex, ridiculous hypothetical scenarios from a holier than thou pulpit of 'i am the most technical tree man ever'.
We need a commitment to doing it right, everytime, every day. The company that I work for which is a bit larger than Jomocos 3/4 brain, 1 man operation has around 5 fatalities a year. Some people believe that is unavoidable, I believe that we can get all our men home to their wives and if we cant we are sure going to try. The sad thing is we have to fight this tremendous uphill battle because of people like you that want to beat your chest and give reasons why you and others are beyond injury, so skilled you are invincible.
A company like mine logs close to 15,000,000 (yeah million) man hours a year... Lets say you have 40 years on the job, injury free, working 3000 hours a year... that 120,000 hours. We log that every two days 'bro'. Your record, experience, words, skills and accomplishments not only mean nothing to me, but pale in comparison to the acts of countless men that have gone out and done it the right way, every day.
I am tired of your crap. Why dont you go find some other industry to pollute.
- Location
- Chapel Hill, NC
Wow, this one got pretty cranked up!
Guys, we are closer to each other than this argument would have us believe... we definitely shouldn't be enemies. Ease up a bit.
Bottom line, no matter what ANYBODY says, it's a personal choice because there is no effective way to enforce a regulation for using two hands... we can't even get people to wear seat belts and around here that will cost you $250 for you first violation... people get caught all the time but that doesn't make them wear seat belts... it makes them pissed off.
So do you think you're going to persuade a pissed off tree to do what you want? Not gonna happen.
I've cut myself with a saw twice, both were just kisses although one was a little more romantic than the other. I count one of them as a one-handing injury even though I was cutting with two hands on the saw, a piece broke and I grabbed it, that's when the saw kicked out of the cut and hit my knee. The other was two hands on the whole time.
That's just my personal experience, judge it if you want, I don't care.
What I think we need to look at here is... why the divide? You'd think this was politics or religion. Whatever happened to compromise and leaving others to be as free as you want to be?
WHY THE HELL DOESN'T ANYBODY COMPROMISE ANYMORE?!! It's a DISCUSSION for chrissakes! It will have NO direct effect on anybody.
This is why the US is losing ground, we argue without compromise, we divide ourselves, nobody is willing to let people who are different than they are just live the way they want. WTF?!
Ever heard of divide and conquer? We're divided and ripe for conquest... being sharply divided is un-American. We joined FIFTY states together and held them together through thick and thin... through COMPROMISE! You wanna make everybody live your way... GET THE F_CK OUT OF MY COUNTRY! You have no business here. This is America and we don't piss on people just because they think differently than we do. (well.. okay, we do, but we're trying to quit)
How many REAL arborists are there in the world? Do we ACTUALLY think it's a good idea to divide ourselves by arguing unresolvable issues until anger takes over and destroys the family?
You can't regulate safety without regulating freedom. I choose freedom over safety, sorry if you take that offensively but know that that's YOU taking offense, I'm not trying to bother anybody.
Just ease up climbers! DAMN!
Guys, we are closer to each other than this argument would have us believe... we definitely shouldn't be enemies. Ease up a bit.
Bottom line, no matter what ANYBODY says, it's a personal choice because there is no effective way to enforce a regulation for using two hands... we can't even get people to wear seat belts and around here that will cost you $250 for you first violation... people get caught all the time but that doesn't make them wear seat belts... it makes them pissed off.
So do you think you're going to persuade a pissed off tree to do what you want? Not gonna happen.
I've cut myself with a saw twice, both were just kisses although one was a little more romantic than the other. I count one of them as a one-handing injury even though I was cutting with two hands on the saw, a piece broke and I grabbed it, that's when the saw kicked out of the cut and hit my knee. The other was two hands on the whole time.
That's just my personal experience, judge it if you want, I don't care.
What I think we need to look at here is... why the divide? You'd think this was politics or religion. Whatever happened to compromise and leaving others to be as free as you want to be?
WHY THE HELL DOESN'T ANYBODY COMPROMISE ANYMORE?!! It's a DISCUSSION for chrissakes! It will have NO direct effect on anybody.
This is why the US is losing ground, we argue without compromise, we divide ourselves, nobody is willing to let people who are different than they are just live the way they want. WTF?!
Ever heard of divide and conquer? We're divided and ripe for conquest... being sharply divided is un-American. We joined FIFTY states together and held them together through thick and thin... through COMPROMISE! You wanna make everybody live your way... GET THE F_CK OUT OF MY COUNTRY! You have no business here. This is America and we don't piss on people just because they think differently than we do. (well.. okay, we do, but we're trying to quit)
How many REAL arborists are there in the world? Do we ACTUALLY think it's a good idea to divide ourselves by arguing unresolvable issues until anger takes over and destroys the family?
You can't regulate safety without regulating freedom. I choose freedom over safety, sorry if you take that offensively but know that that's YOU taking offense, I'm not trying to bother anybody.
Just ease up climbers! DAMN!
Just out of curiosity 223, does your huge company have a two man minimum WTC operation policy?
Inquiring minds like mine want to know.
jomoco
Inquiring minds like mine want to know.
jomoco
[ QUOTE ]
I am tired of your crap. Why dont you go find some other industry to pollute.
[/ QUOTE ]
Rather than letting your spleen get the best of your brain so repeatedly old bean, why don't you simply explain how you deal with two axis' of independent support while taking dynamic rides with both hands on the saw?
Do you chuck it out onto its own lanyard and brace yourself with both hands? Alright, cool.
But now what do you do if that leader your rigging off fails below you?
What is your back up plan?
Do you just kiss your life good bye?
My back up plan is running in my hand mate.
Trees have hidden defects, and if you do enough of them, it's a statistical certainty that you'll discover this. One might even call it inevitable.
Describe your technique in detail rather than blathering please.
jomoco
I am tired of your crap. Why dont you go find some other industry to pollute.
[/ QUOTE ]
Rather than letting your spleen get the best of your brain so repeatedly old bean, why don't you simply explain how you deal with two axis' of independent support while taking dynamic rides with both hands on the saw?
Do you chuck it out onto its own lanyard and brace yourself with both hands? Alright, cool.
But now what do you do if that leader your rigging off fails below you?
What is your back up plan?
Do you just kiss your life good bye?
My back up plan is running in my hand mate.
Trees have hidden defects, and if you do enough of them, it's a statistical certainty that you'll discover this. One might even call it inevitable.
Describe your technique in detail rather than blathering please.
jomoco
Roger_Barnett
Participating member
- Location
- Seattle, in the PNWet
As usual, a great post, Blinky.
Reg and I had dinner in Seattle last week. One handing was briefly discussed. We both do it, and will likely never stop. Why? Production. Efficiency. Ergonomics. Comfort.
To me, it has come naturally for 38 years.
I really don't like getting involved in these heated, opinionated discussions. Nor can anyone tell me what to do, and that includes regulators who write guidelines. As an owner, I answer to no one. Given the age or experience of many of you hotheads, it is likely that I, the old geezer, will get the job done faster and more efficiently than most of you, and equally safe.
So, call me a hack if you desire, but that would just be making a fool of yourself.
Reg and I had dinner in Seattle last week. One handing was briefly discussed. We both do it, and will likely never stop. Why? Production. Efficiency. Ergonomics. Comfort.
To me, it has come naturally for 38 years.
I really don't like getting involved in these heated, opinionated discussions. Nor can anyone tell me what to do, and that includes regulators who write guidelines. As an owner, I answer to no one. Given the age or experience of many of you hotheads, it is likely that I, the old geezer, will get the job done faster and more efficiently than most of you, and equally safe.
So, call me a hack if you desire, but that would just be making a fool of yourself.
[ QUOTE ]
As usual, a great post, Blinky.
Reg and I had dinner in Seattle last week. One handing was briefly discussed. We both do it, and will likely never stop. Why? Production. Efficiency. Ergonomics.
[/ QUOTE ]
What about for saftey? Eating lunch right now , using phone, just did a storm damaged blk cherry, one hand on one cut was safest way, I'll explain tonight......
As usual, a great post, Blinky.
Reg and I had dinner in Seattle last week. One handing was briefly discussed. We both do it, and will likely never stop. Why? Production. Efficiency. Ergonomics.
[/ QUOTE ]
What about for saftey? Eating lunch right now , using phone, just did a storm damaged blk cherry, one hand on one cut was safest way, I'll explain tonight......
Do you really think Blair's on your side in this poll 223?
Anything to back that assumption on your part up other than talk?
jomoco
Anything to back that assumption on your part up other than talk?
jomoco
Daniel
Carpal tunnel level member
- Location
- Suburban Philadelphia (Wayne)
Where were you guys when I was criticizing Ben's "tulip tree murder" video for one handing in plane with his body etc..
bonner1040
Branched out member
- Location
- Boston
two man minimum WTC operation policy?
Can you elaborate?
Don Blair? If the ANZI Z133 Vice Chair wants to come out in support of handed chainsaw use then lets hear it. If you are representing that he is someone you may know or be friends with and that your words are his, you may not find yourself friends for very long.
Stick to your own arguments. You may very well be a better treeman than me Jomoco but you are far outclassed as a debater.
Can you elaborate?
Don Blair? If the ANZI Z133 Vice Chair wants to come out in support of handed chainsaw use then lets hear it. If you are representing that he is someone you may know or be friends with and that your words are his, you may not find yourself friends for very long.
Stick to your own arguments. You may very well be a better treeman than me Jomoco but you are far outclassed as a debater.
Well thanks for using my handle jomoco anyway 223!
That's some degree of progress I guess.
I'm too old and orthopedically challenged to be much competition to any of the young bucks these days, or even in my hey days in the early 90's really.
But that doesn't mean I haven't been there done that enough to know exactly what I'm talkin bout up top mate.
jomoco
That's some degree of progress I guess.
I'm too old and orthopedically challenged to be much competition to any of the young bucks these days, or even in my hey days in the early 90's really.
But that doesn't mean I haven't been there done that enough to know exactly what I'm talkin bout up top mate.
jomoco
bonner1040
Branched out member
- Location
- Boston
So what is WTC?
Whole Tree Chipper 223.
jomoco
jomoco
tomthetreeman
Participating member
- Location
- Rhode Island
I thought it was World Trade Center.
bonner1040
Branched out member
- Location
- Boston
Then negative ghostrider we do not. I know dotpalm does though.
Treespotter
New member
- Location
- Houten, The Netherlands
Auch! Today IT happened to me. One of the last branches in the tree, a bit of a tight schedule, running late and BANG.
Cut up my left hand for the second time this month. Getting sloppy I guess.
My fingers just healed from the last cut up and one knuckle was still a bit sore/ticklish. Starting from scratch again.
To bad I wasn't using my chainsaw. With that machine I can't recall ever becoming sloppy.
Does that mean the next Z states that we can only use Zubats with two handles???
Chainsaws are dangerous things that have to be handled with care. If you are focused in what you do and stay sharp all the time you will probably never be in the danger zone.
Do you know what keeps me focused while using a chainsaw? The horrific pictures on the internet showing completely demolished hands. I'm also very focused on handling the Zubat around my (climbing) lines. In my mind I can see myself flying down without chute to catch me. That's probably the reason for becoming sloppy while cutting. Knowing my Zubat wounds in combination with TeaTree oil are closed within two days, pain free and completely healed within a week.
My mate Jelte told me once. "Practice what you preach Wolter".
That's the reason why I learn my students the tricks how to use the chainsaw two handed all the time! And also explain them HOW never to use the saw one handed.
I really hope that the Hard Core two handers and the "I never ever ever one hand" guys will never get caught by their ripping chain. And I neither hope that the other 98% of the arborists will get caught either.
Just stay on the safe side of your chainsaws guys, no matter how you handle your gear.
Cut up my left hand for the second time this month. Getting sloppy I guess.
My fingers just healed from the last cut up and one knuckle was still a bit sore/ticklish. Starting from scratch again.
To bad I wasn't using my chainsaw. With that machine I can't recall ever becoming sloppy.
Does that mean the next Z states that we can only use Zubats with two handles???
Chainsaws are dangerous things that have to be handled with care. If you are focused in what you do and stay sharp all the time you will probably never be in the danger zone.
Do you know what keeps me focused while using a chainsaw? The horrific pictures on the internet showing completely demolished hands. I'm also very focused on handling the Zubat around my (climbing) lines. In my mind I can see myself flying down without chute to catch me. That's probably the reason for becoming sloppy while cutting. Knowing my Zubat wounds in combination with TeaTree oil are closed within two days, pain free and completely healed within a week.
My mate Jelte told me once. "Practice what you preach Wolter".
That's the reason why I learn my students the tricks how to use the chainsaw two handed all the time! And also explain them HOW never to use the saw one handed.
I really hope that the Hard Core two handers and the "I never ever ever one hand" guys will never get caught by their ripping chain. And I neither hope that the other 98% of the arborists will get caught either.
Just stay on the safe side of your chainsaws guys, no matter how you handle your gear.
Frax
Participating member
There are such strong feelings about this subject. I think it should be a religion! And we know not to talk about religion!
It could be called simply "One Hand"
So, if you are a "One Hander" and it feels right for you, there you go! All done.
If you cut your hand off, you also could be in that religion, if you want. No pressure to join or anything.
It could be called simply "One Hand"
So, if you are a "One Hander" and it feels right for you, there you go! All done.
If you cut your hand off, you also could be in that religion, if you want. No pressure to join or anything.
tomthetreeman
Participating member
- Location
- Rhode Island
What is the sound of one hand cutting?
evo
Been here much more than a while
- Location
- My Island, WA
sneeches, now do i have to make a star off machine?
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