One Handing a Top Handle Chain Saw? Yes or No

Private Tree Ordinances, good, bad, or ugly?

  • Good for the trees but a pain for me

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    13
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I one hand my saw, but it isnt because its not possible otherwise. It is because I am in a rush, I am being lazy, and because I, in my mind have weighed that it is safe to do so in that situation.

[/ QUOTE ] Your glass is half empty....I'd argue 'economy of movement' should not be over looked. Working only as hard as you have to might suggest a person is smart, not lazy.

Correct work positioning is all good and well, but there are plenty of situations where such close positioning will put you at a greater risk of harm than the safer distance that one handling will afford. Rule books and guides are great, but ultimately you're on your own out there....whereby getting spooked, or having an instinct, a 'feel' for a situation is what might overt a serious mishap. I can think of countless volatile and reactive incidents in the past i.e. storm damaged, hung-up, dead and fragile trees where I've thanked God thereafter that I made the decision to one handle....small and large saws.

One handled saw use is not the 'cause' of kickback. Irresponsible use is....whether by lack of experience, awareness or discipline. Knowing how and when to safely use a saw one handed is not a big thing or difficult puzzle to figure out....and there's plenty of individuals performing reckless and dangerous 2 handed sawing the world over....its just how they're wired, you won’t stop them being dangerous people that easy.

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Sometimes though when I think about my wife-to-be Meg though I ask myself, is this thing I do worth rushing through? Does she deserve a one armed husband?

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How do you see that happening, the one armed husband thing? Along the same lines of what I asked in my earlier post. Frax was the only one to answer, thanks Frax.
 
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You all know there is an "ignore this user" button, right?

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Well thats a bit extreme woulter....why on earth yould you post that? Having alternative or opposing views doesn't make for bad discussion, or bad people for that matter. Would you prefer a 'rigged' game or something?
 
I voted yes as well, I don't one hand often but I do it when I feel its safer, more efficient, any number of reasons really. And many times its just the release cut that I one hand, I'll make my undercut/face cut/etc with both hands on the saw, than get into a better position or put more distance between the piece and I and one hand the release cut. Like Blinky, I use the rules more as a guideline, the people who wrote it aren't out there like we are, they don't know the vast number of situations we can get into.
 
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...the people who wrote it aren't out there like we are, they don't know the vast number of situations we can get into.

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This conception is sooooo not true!

Sure...a few particpants on the Z haven't been on rope or in a bucket for a while. That doesn't mean that their insights aren't valid. There is a lot of 'been there, done that' experience accumulated at the Z meetings.

There isn't a formal roll-call for the participants at the Z meetings, only for voting members. There are always 30-40 other people at the meeting. Everyone can participate in the discussion and their input is encouraged and appreciated.

I've been attending the meetings for a long time. Most of that time as a voting member. And...most of 'that' time as a full time climber/business owner. For the past few years I haven't climbed full time...but...my harness, and Hitch Hiker, still has fresh sawdust on it!
 
Work positioning is only one of the reasons I would one hand a saw. The main reason I cut one handed is to cut and throw. When Your doing line clearance your not going to rope a thousand times a day and you can't just let branches fall on the three phase, so you cut and hold the pieces. I'm not saying it's the safest was to cut, but It is buy far the most productive way to cut in alot of situations.
 
The other aspect of that Tom and what was alluded to earlier is the level at which they are viewing this. Rules and regs are made based on the accumulated experience of the industry as a whole. Millions of man hours and the cost of the accidents in our business add up but may not be seen by an individual operator. This is the tyranny of statistics that govern our world whether it be the amount of insurance we pay due to the work we do, the car we drive, the city we live in, our age, gender or what have you. The mining industry as a whole strives for a zero accident rate due to the costs to companies in real terms. This is no longer a mom and pop business so there is greater compliance. Unfortunately, our is still small and thus the challenge of compliance is akin to herding cats!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pk7yqlTMvp8
 
Yes for me! To each their own I say. I think it can be done safely, situationally dependent. There are time to do it and times not to. Small cut and toss, I use my handsaw, which i prefer anyway...

Good point Reg, one handing is not the cause of kickback! Incorrect use of the saw and positioning of the tip in the cut is what causes kickback. It can happen either one handed or two. I understand that you have less control with one hand, but kickback should be avoided in any situation. If they don't want one-handing, don't make top handle saws.
 
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If they don't want one-handing, don't make top handle saws.

[/ QUOTE ]

Come on...this is one of lamest justifications for one-handing.

Fill in the blank:

If 'they' don't want people to die, then stop making_______

Airplanes
Cars
Cigarettes
Fireworks

Top handled saws aren't made for one-handing, the top handle just makes it easier to one-hand.

Do you know what a 'necking-knob' is? Google it...and look at the images, then find out why they're called necking-knobs.

They were made to assist turning cars without power steering...but,they sure did make necking easier though. Ask you Dad/Mom or Gramps/Gran ;) They were before my time though...hahahha!
 
I'd like Gord's take on this subject myself. Because like Reg, Rog and others, I've seen his vids, and much like Graeme and Gerry, know he's a hands on real deal take down artist, whose opinions I listen to, and respect.

Ever seen Gord's Black Keys tree removal vid?

Come on Gord!

Post it up mate!

jomoco
grin.gif
 
OK.... One handing is not the CAUSE of kickback..

SO WHAT???? The point is that even the strongest climber will not be able to control a kickback one handed.. Kickback isn't going to happen often for most, but it only has to happen once to change or end a life.. SO one unseen stub.. one misjudgment of the diameter of the piece.. one gust of wind rocking a piece onto the bar tip, (especially with rakers that were taken down too low) etc.. unlikely BUT it could happen... HAS HAPPENED!!!

I have had a saw kickback (gently) when I was cutting one handed in plane with my torso.. Saw only jumped a couple of inches back in the cut... BUT I learned a valuable lesson.. its a helpless feeling having no control of a saw that is moving directly towards your body.. There is no way I could have stopped that saw with one hand if it had kicked back harder, whereas even a stronger kciback wouldn't have given more than a little jolt if I had two hands on the saw.. NEVER AGAIN!!!!

I agree about one handing from the bucket is just common sense.. Who made up that rule anyhow? Oh ya right Tom.. all those industry experts... SURE!!!! They're not pencil pushers... I'll save the rant about how they lack common sense for another time and place..

I'd bet money that no 5 of them, put together, have as much climbing time as Reg in the last ten years.
 
I'm not trying to justify one-handing tom, just making a blanket statement. To me, a rear handle is more ergonomically suited to having both hands on the saw. As a professional operator, I think the decision lays in the operator to make the decision (kind of like the two points of attachment rule when cutting). If it is safer to do it in a particular situation, do it. Obviously, some 'professionals' are not suited to make those decisions, which brings in the topic of regulation... I do not one-hand regularly, but am not opposed to it.
 
As I stated earlier in this thread I do ocassionally 1 hand the chainsaw. There have even been the rare few times that I have 1 handed a rear handled saw, this includes an 066.

As I've gotten older I've finally realized that you need to learn from the "older" guys, learn from their mishaps and not wait to make the same mistakes yourself. Unfortunately the "older" guys seem divided on this issue.

As far as Z regs. go, I think it was their only real choice. If they had given a loop hole or exception then it could be easily exploited.

I'm not sure if half the arguements come from peoples mental picture of what 1 handing is. I think back to today and there were a few cuts that were with 1 hand, do they stand out as dangerous...no. While in Daniels post he seems to picture something completely different that I wouldn't condone either.

Maybe if the people against 1 handing stop thinking of machete weilding wild men and the 1 handers stop thinking that the 2 handers are little get nuttin' done in a day arborists it might be easier to discuss this.

I really don't think 1 handing should ever be taught or encouraged or expected. If you feel you need to 1 hand I would hope that you have had enough training/experience to make the call as whether you should or shouldn't. Sadly most probably consider themselves "experienced", kind of like everyone considers themselves a "good driver". That's when it can get a little sketchy. You all know what they say about common sense, it's not so common.

This is the never ending arguement it seems.
 
Well for what it's worth, the poll was a fun adventure. Everything after turned into the pis$ing contest we all expected. At this point how about agree to disagree, and move onto some thing really interesting but just as fruitless and controversial; evolution. Fact or fiction.
This discussion is going nowhere fast,soooo. Everyone do one simple test, place your fingers on the side of your neck and if you feel a pulse, you did everything right today and made it home to be able to bitch about how some one youve probably never met did their job and made it home.
Just remember, the higher the horse, the longer the fall.
 
Daniel,

How much is your ante up to? I only gamble money on sure bets. Since you have to answer Prime's call...I'll wait for my turn to take your money from you ;)

I agree with bzrman's comments about both sides being open minded. One handing could be a viable practice for special circumstances but not like the machete wielding like some people want allowed.
 
10 pages?

Here, let me sum it up for some of you... in three sentences:
Some folks one hand all the time, they think it's great!
Some folks never one hand at all, they think it's bad!
Some folks one-hand sometimes. They look left, and look right, and then go ahead. They feel it's wrong, but, hey, sometimes you gotta do what you gotta do.




I'm going to instantly author the comprehensive real world Field Safety Manual for Trimmers and Groundspersons...

Speelyei's Field Manual for Tree Work:

Safety is important, therefore, ________________ is totally forbidden, and completely expected.

Carry on.
 
Jeremy 9: "It is buy far the most productive way to cut in alot of situations." Well hmmm, I suppose that's one way to look at it being as 90 percent of the people on this thread are in the production business. However, participating willingly in one of the top rated most dangerous jobs in the world, I prefer to consider the far more safe way, even if it takes longer. Just my two cents.

This (attached photo) happened in my area this year - clear cut case of where two handing could have avoided this entire injury.

Climb and cut safe all - Katy
 

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Actually the portion of this thread that dealt with integrated trigger chain brakes came closer to mitigating the dangers of one handed trimsaw use in our industry than anything else discussed, in my opinion.

Husqvarna and Stihl both should be more progressive about their climbsaw designs in the future bearing in mind that to the victor of the problem, go the spoils of market share.

Pull your corporate heads out of the sand and join the Internet age of knowledge trumping tragedy in a repeatable manner for cryin out loud!

Happy Independence Day everyone!

jomoco
 

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