Fu*%face Von Clownstick

[rico]

I agree let the adult do and live how they want, as long as they are not directly effecting or influencing a child/baby.

So you are not opposed to gay marriage then...

 

[climbhightree]

So you are not opposed to gay marriage then...

Do I think it is a sin? Yes, so in that way I'm opposed to it. No different then any other sin one would do constantly and willingly. But if they want to live that way, that is on them. Doesn’t mean I won't speak out about the sin, as I would to a drug addict , murderer, adultery, etc.

I would prefer not to have it called marriage too, since traditionally speaking that is a covenant between the individuals and God. As far as the state/government is concerned I have no real issues with them having the same spousal benefits.

But samething as I said before, don't force it on me. If I owned a cake shop, I shouldnt have to make a wedding cake for them. Just go to the next cake shop. I don't want to put my brand and artistic ability into something I don't agree with.

I've had clients that were gay, and was somewhat friends with them. I had no problem doing their trees. But I personally see a moral difference in making a wedding cake for them.

 

[evo]

Last thought on this. On the subject of sharing bathrooms, and kids.
As a father with a daughter I have brought her into MANY bathrooms. With both kids I had no issue with walking into the women’s bathroom to find a changing table, as my second my daughter grew I now have no qualms with walking her to either bathroom so she can do her business, get her butt wiped, not fall in, wash her hands and get out.
We all shit, this society needs to grow the fuck up

 

[owScott]

Do I think it is a sin? Yes, so in that way I'm opposed to it. No different then any other sin one would do constantly and willingly. But if they want to live that way, that is on them. Doesn’t mean I won't speak out about the sin, as I would to a drug addict , murderer, adultery, etc.

I would prefer not to have it called marriage too, since traditionally speaking that is a covenant between the individuals and God. As far as the state/government is concerned I have no real issues with them having the same spousal benefits.

But samething as I said before, don't force it on me. If I owned a cake shop, I shouldnt have to make a wedding cake for them. Just go to the next cake shop. I don't want to put my brand and artistic ability into something I don't agree with.

I've had clients that were gay, and was somewhat friends with them. I had no problem doing their trees. But I personally see a moral difference in making a wedding cake for them.

Lets can the verbal gymnastics. Direct question, would you vote for legisaltion givng gay people the right get married? Go ahead and insert civil union for marriage here to simplify it for you.

 

[climbhightree]

Lets can the verbal gymnastics. Direct question, would you vote for legisaltion givng gay people the right get married? Go ahead and insert civil union for marriage here to simplify it for you.

Would I vote for it no, because that is asking me to participate and affirm it...like making a wedding cake for them. I feel that is quite obvious because I said I shouldn't be force to do a cake, said it was a sin, etc.

Would you vote for something you feel is wrong? Maybe like constitution carry laws or anti (what tom says we can't talk about)? Of course you wouldn't...so y should I vote for something I'm against personally?

I possibly may choose not to vote for or against, but I certainly wouldn't vote for it.

 

[owScott]

Do I think it is a sin? Yes, so in that way I'm opposed to it. No different then any other sin one would do constantly and willingly. But if they want to live that way, that is on them. Doesn’t mean I won't speak out about the sin, as I would to a drug addict , murderer, adultery, etc.

I would prefer not to have it called marriage too, since traditionally speaking that is a covenant between the individuals and God. As far as the state/government is concerned I have no real issues with them having the same spousal benefits.

But samething as I said before, don't force it on me. If I owned a cake shop, I shouldnt have to make a wedding cake for them. Just go to the next cake shop. I don't want to put my brand and artistic ability into something I don't agree with.

I've had clients that were gay, and was somewhat friends with them. I had no problem doing their trees. But I personally see a moral difference in making a wedding cake for them.

"Somewhat friends" is disingenuous, dishonest and phony. What is that? Disdain with a thin veneer of fake friendliness to facilitate the making of money. How would making a cake for someone be forcing anything on you any more than doing their tree work? I am guessing because it involves marriage. What if this gay couple said they wanted their trees pruned because they were having the wedding there and getting married under the trees you pruned? How about making a birthday cake for a gay person? Refusing service to someone on these grounds is discrimination plain and simple. Just because you attach " religious liberties " to it doesnt give a pass to violate the law. What is religious liberties anyway? Seems like its being used as a pass to do things that are not lawful or not decent. What would Jesus do? would he resfuse service to someone because they were sinners? Didnt he wash the feet of a sinner. For that matter how do you provide service to anyone after all everyone is a sinner in your view.

 

[Shadowscape]

No they have not changed biologically or genetically. All they have changed is their appearance. They are still xx or xy. They still can't produce a baby with the the opposite's sex organs.

They have changed biologically. They have all the proper parts you consider male and female parts.
The fact they can't produce babies has no bearing. I can't have children. Does that make me a non-male?

 

[owScott]

Would I vote for it no, because that is asking me to participate and affirm it...like making a wedding cake for them. I feel that is quite obvious because I said I shouldn't be force to do a cake, said it was a sin, etc.

Would you vote for something you feel is wrong? Maybe like constitution carry laws or anti (what tom says we can't talk about)? Of course you wouldn't...so y should I vote for something I'm against personally?

I possibly may choose not to vote for or against, but I certainly wouldn't vote for it.

I appreciate your direct anwser. I am ok with being in disagreement. I choose to not worry what other people do. I focus on being the best person I can be and treating people right and taking care of my family. I think we may have some common ground there. Just a different approach.

 

[Shadowscape]

Getting back to the topic of this thread...

In a legal filing made late Friday, attorneys working for special counsel Jack Smith notified the court that information they will be handing over to Donald Trump's attorneys as part of the discovery process will contain some information on "ongoing investigations" that could lead to new charges.

According to a report from Alan Feuer of the New York Times, those documents also contain information about "uncharged individuals.”

Now that the former president has been arraigned in a Florida courtroom on 37 federal counts that include alleged violations of the Espionage Actviolations of the Espionage Act, prosecutors are pressing forward with normal court procedures and the notice given on Friday puts Trump's lawyers on notice that there is likely more to come.

 

[rico]

Would I vote for it no, because that is asking me to participate and affirm it...like making a wedding cake for them. I feel that is quite obvious because I said I shouldn't be force to do a cake, said it was a sin, etc.

Would you vote for something you feel is wrong? Maybe like constitution carry laws or anti (what tom says we can't talk about)? Of course you wouldn't...so y should I vote for something I'm against personally?

I possibly may choose not to vote for or against, but I certainly wouldn't vote for it.

And there it is. THE JUDGMENT! Forget life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. Equal protections? Please. That stuff only applies to us gawd fearing heterosexual folks. A truly despicable stance which is as unAmerican as it gets, and very reminiscent of blacks not being allowed to vote, sit next to you at restaurant, or sip water from the same fountain.

 

[Arb23]

And there it is. THE JUDGMENT! Forget life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. Equal protections? Please. That stuff only applies to us gawd fearing heterosexual folks. Very reminiscent of blacks not being allowed to vote, sit next to you at restaurant, or sip water from the same fountain. A fucking despicable stance which is as unAmerican as it gets.

Um...voting for or not voting for issues you care about is the most American thing. To label someone 'un-American' because they have a differing belief system is about as un-American as it gets. But it's pretty standard fare these days.

Democracy (what's left of it) isn't everyone must agree with your world view. Thankfully.

 

[owScott]

Would I vote for it no, because that is asking me to participate and affirm it...like making a wedding cake for them. I feel that is quite obvious because I said I shouldn't be force to do a cake, said it was a sin, etc.

Would you vote for something you feel is wrong? Maybe like constitution carry laws or anti (what tom says we can't talk about)? Of course you wouldn't...so y should I vote for something I'm against personally?

I possibly may choose not to vote for or against, but I certainly wouldn't vote for it.

Would I vote for a law that allows peolple to burn the flag and kneel for the national anthem, yes. Would I personally ingage in this behavior, as a veteran most definately not. Freedom doesnt mean I must agree on like it. What these people are doing doesnt effect you but only in your mind.

 

[Njdelaney]

To be CLEAR, you wouldn't be "voting for gay marriage". You would be voting for the idea that you actually believe in freedom. You believe that someone who has different views than you has the right and the freedom to practice those views without persecution. You can be against gay marriage and still vote for it to be legal. So now that things are clear, would you vote for it to be legal even though you're against it?

 

[climbhightree]

"Somewhat friends" is disingenuous, dishonest and phony. What is that? Disdain with a thin veneer of fake friendliness to facilitate the making of money. How would making a cake for someone be forcing anything on you any more than doing their tree work? I am guessing because it involves marriage. What if this gay couple said they wanted their trees pruned because they were having the wedding there and getting married under the trees you pruned? How about making a birthday cake for a gay person? Refusing service to someone on these grounds is discrimination plain and simple. Just because you attach " religious liberties " to it doesnt give a pass to violate the law. What is religious liberties anyway? Seems like its being used as a pass to do things that are not lawful or not decent. What would Jesus do? would he resfuse service to someone because they were sinners? Didnt he wash the feet of a sinner. For that matter how do you provide service to anyone after all everyone is a sinner in your view.

Birthday cake, I'd have no problem making that for them. A wedding cake is a different level due to the marriage ceremony aspect. As to the tree's above their wedding, I would honestly have to think about it. I feel it is somewhat different though. Unlike a cake it isn't for a one time benifit/enjoyment.

Would you build a shed/house that you knew without a shadow of doubt was going to be used for evil purposes? I'd hope you wouldn't. For me making a wedding cake would be along the same lines (though probably less extreme).

We are all sinners, including myself. The difference is I try to recognize my sin and not continually live in it. I understand gay marriage is socially acceptable now, but that doesn't mean I have to morally except it too.

To provide a service for someone isn't always an acceptance of someone or of their personal life. A wedding cake is different as I explained before.

 

[climbhightree]

They have changed biologically. They have all the proper parts you consider male and female parts.
The fact they can't produce babies has no bearing. I can't have children. Does that make me a non-male?

No they don't give them tubes, womb, fully functional penis etc. So they aren't the proper parts. They haven't changed their genes xx, xy. If they are dug up in the future they will be identified as their birth sex

 

[Arb23]

Whenever people complain about American beer, I like to remind them it's a big country with a lot more than Bud or Pabst, hell, Washington state has 426 breweries alone!

Couldn't agree more. Some great beers to be sure! The mass market ones are what I was referring to. Was in WA a few weeks ago and got to try some the local brews and was not disappointed!

A bigger, fatter can doesn't make for a better beer(looking at you Fosters) although in my opinion it makes for a better wife. Again though, that's just my opinion.

Haha - well, truth be told, Fosters is the 'export' beer we send overseas lol. I used to love Victoria Bitter, but sadly cant get that anywhere I know of in the US. No comment on the 'wife' strategy lol...

 

[rico]

Um...voting for or not voting for issues you care about is the most American thing. To label someone 'un-American' because they have a differing belief system is about as un-American as it gets. But it's pretty standard fare these days.

Democracy (what's left of it) isn't everyone must agree with your world view. Thankfully.

No, it's called discrimination plain and simple. But instead of being based on the color of someones skin its based on sexual preference. I can't help but wonder how you would feel if it was pointed in your direction?

 

[owScott]

I agree best not to drag that all up again.

I maintain I'm being pretty consistent...protect the children and the innocent in and out of the womb from being killed, maimed, or wrongly influenced into life altering physical actions via our schools, social media, doctors that just want the money, society and businesses pushing it

Birthday cake, I'd have no problem making that for them. A wedding cake is a different level due to the marriage ceremony aspect. As to the tree's above their wedding, I would honestly have to think about it. I feel it is somewhat different though. Unlike a cake it isn't for a one time benifit/enjoyment.

Would you build a shed/house that you knew without a shadow of doubt was going to be used for evil purposes? I'd hope you wouldn't. For me making a wedding cake would be along the same lines (though probably less extreme).

We are all sinners, including myself. The difference is I try to recognize my sin and not continually live in it. I understand gay marriage is socially acceptable now, but that doesn't mean I have to morally except it too.

To provide a service for someone isn't always an acceptance of someone or of their personal life. A wedding cake is different as I explained before.

This is reasonable response from your view point, disagree but can accept it. I guess we have a different view of evil. I too try and acknowledge my short comings and work on changing them. Curious on your view of assualt weapons. After all many children died at Sandy hook as a result of these weapons. Placing sole blame on the individual is dishonest. You did say protect children and the innocent out of the womb.

 

[Arb23]

No, it's called discrimination plain and simple. But instead of being based on the color of someones skin its based on sexual preference. I can't help but wonder how you would feel if it was pointed in your direction?

No need to wonder. I'd be very mad if someone took away my ability to vote for an issue or candidate that I support. Hmmm...

 

[evo]

Birthday cake, I'd have no problem making that for them. A wedding cake is a different level due to the marriage ceremony aspect. As to the tree's above their wedding, I would honestly have to think about it. I feel it is somewhat different though. Unlike a cake it isn't for a one time benifit/enjoyment.

Would you build a shed/house that you knew without a shadow of doubt was going to be used for evil purposes? I'd hope you wouldn't. For me making a wedding cake would be along the same lines (though probably less extreme).

We are all sinners, including myself. The difference is I try to recognize my sin and not continually live in it. I understand gay marriage is socially acceptable now, but that doesn't mean I have to morally except it too.

To provide a service for someone isn't always an acceptance of someone or of their personal life. A wedding cake is different as I explained before.

Can you explain how being gay is evil? We are not talking about building a shed where cute little animals are dismembered alive. Nor a gas chamber.. Its simply baking a cake for someone that is getting married consensually