drop a 75' tree in a 50' LZ

Re: drop a 75\' tree in a 50\' LZ

I can't say much, I've done enough crazy/lazy crap in my climbing career for a few life times. When in doubt go smaller. You won't be perfect all the time. Even if it goes wrong in 1 of every 1,000 times, if you climb long enough it will go wrong soon enough. It sounds like in your big ash bomb that it went somewhat wrong already. You got lucky already, one of nine lives spent, already. Not to mention your spinning all these karma wheels on this web-site and every climber with a brain is telling you that your being a little crazy. If it was me I would be a little nervous the next time I was taking a gargantuan top. If you are going to catch it in the mouth better to catch a smaller piece than the mother load. I don't know you from Adam, I'm sure you are a fine climber. You are going to do whatever you want to do anyway. If nothing else, think of the guys on the ground who would have clean up the mess. If you want to be all ballsy and stuff free solo some mountain and then bass jump off the bstrd.
 
Re: drop a 75\' tree in a 50\' LZ

I caught the first post of this thread before there were any replies and a quote from Nigel in the film "Spinal Tap" came to mind. When he sees the new album cover and says "Is this a joke?". I learned early on, the hard way, that it's risky to cut a piece that is taller or longer than you are from the ground. I think this thread was started as an experiment to see how many would rebuke him. A little part of me doubts that he is serious.
 
Re: drop a 75\' tree in a 50\' LZ

I appreciate all your concerns.. And this is a discussion worth having..

There are a lot of factors that go into making a decision like that.. ie if I had a 200' climbing line, maybe I would have set it in the adjacent tree.. but even then the dead top would be leaning in the general direction of the climb line... didn't like that...

Preset a climb line in the dead ash for ascent, then switched to the rope guide for the cut, so always had 2 tie ins.

Extrememly wide trunk flare looked very stable at the ground..

Plan A was to try and push it into the hole. When I got into the tree it was clear that it wasn't going to turn that far.. Plan B was to let it hit the white oak.... many factors involved in that decision too.. tree in woods, aethestics not much a factor.. white oak very stable... ash so dead that it was bound to fall apart on impact... Customers own fault for letting the tree get so rotted before removal, should the oak loose a big limb..

only real safety concern was something coming back after impact with the oak... nothing came within 20'... I haven't seen tape yet.. I AM sure that a lot of people are going to look at it and say.. that was a crzy rookie mistake... When in fact it was the exact opposite.. tough to tell the difference sometimes..
 
Re: drop a 75\' tree in a 50\' LZ

NOBODY wants to see you go down with the ship, as Evo has shared his personal loss with us, and Blinky shared his personal injury, you can especially see why there is the concern.

Could you have tied to climblines together to achieve the height you needed, perhaps climbing SRT with ground anchor,

or

shot a line and installed a rope with a running bowline in the neighboring tree, with the throwline re-attached to the RB loop, in order to pull it loose and back out of the tree without even having to go to the TIP for retrieval?

I don't know squat about ash trees, but I do know about hazard trees. Breakaway lanyards or slip off the end of the lanyard friction hitches with TIPs in other trees.

Could you have shot a throwline in the top to bust it out/ test the tree before climbing? I did a dead top removal out of a western red cedar yesterday. I had the top swinging 3-4 feet off of center with a throw line before entering with a remote TIP. Shook out some small, dead branches that might have fallen on me from climbing. I knew that i didn't really have to fear the top breaking out mid-ascent, and that the tree was somewhat stable at the roots. I had my pull (throw) line already in place.



Was there no risk of root failure? Stem failure?


There is the famous mountaineering expression that Paul Petzoldt used to use, "There are old climbers. There are bold climbers. But not old, bold climbers." Bold John Bachar died free soloing (ropeless climbing) recently. Bold Dan Osman died several years back with rope jumping due to bad judgment. You hear all about the tree accidents.

We just want everyone to be safe, and learn from each others triumphs, mistakes, etc, and very, very lastly, accidents.

Seemed like you were bragging about what a gnarly, dangerous tree you (short-cut)climbed. Not a good example to set for less experienced people.

One more Petzoldt-used saying. "Good experiences comes from good judgment. Good judgment comes from bad experienes." Collective bad experiences in both mountaineering and tree climbing are usually grievous.

Be safe. Charge people what it takes to do the job safely, or walk away. Order a new rope and come back. Just don't let hubris get in the way.

Around here, often Good customers have a lot more respect for a professional having the technical skills, judgment, and equipment to do a hazard removal safely, than Cowboying Up, IMO.
 
Re: drop a 75\' tree in a 50\' LZ

No doubt there were other options and the suggesions you make show your experience in dealing with dangerous big trees... They are all good suggestions.. I would not call this "cowboying up", though I can understand that perpective, as well as the one that says this is not a good example to set in an on line forum.. Maybe you're right about that...

That said, I AM very conscious and careful about my personal safety.. even a small mishap could permanently end my climbing career.. I understand the principle that a 1 in 1,000 chance will eventually catch up to you if you take chances like that often and long enough.

God willing we will all go home safe every night..
 
Re: drop a 75\' tree in a 50\' LZ

I'm with Sean - SRT is a great way to go. And not having the right rope for the job? That isn't a good excuse.

A fellow arborist I know used a short rope on a weekend job and ended up throwing out his back for weeks because his tie-in point was at a terrible angle.

I asked him why he didn't use the right rope and he had no answer.

This is the same guy who let a climbing saw of his burn up when he could have put out the fire.

I'm not saying you're as crazy as this guy, Daniel, but that ash story speaks volumes about your disregard for safety. All these people on here telling you to be careful and you just tell more cowboy stories.

We've all been there, done that, and have learned to do better. That is the reason for this online community. Otherwise we're just a bunch of people jawin about what we do.
 
Re: drop a 75\' tree in a 50\' LZ

Here's a quote from Ekka on AS regarding another situation. It may hold true here:
"Most good tree felling guides, books and tutors stress the importance of evaluating all variables, having backups, minimizing physical effort and taking a productive but safe path. Those can only be evaluated on site, the lower the skill of the persons making the evaluations the higher the risk appears to be for those who choose differently due to advanced experience and knowledge."

Just cause you, and that can mean all of you, think it was unsafe based on a verbal discription, doesn't mean it was. Even with photos and videos its extremely hard to make a call on that sort of thing, without being on site... and even on site, one's perspective often changes from ground to tree. I do appreciate your concerns for safety though, and that is commnedable..



THREE KINDS OF CLIMBERS....

There are two kinds of tree climbers that don't use pole saws... One spikes all his prunes, runs up the tree and butchers it. He doesn't use a pole saw cause he doesn't think he needs one.. Then there is the climber that sets his rope with a throw line, footlocks, uses a FS and advanced hitch,and walks to the tips of every branch with a zubat.

Then there is the kind that uses a pole saw to advance his tie in point and saw branch tips and dead wood. He ties in low and uses a tautline. He thinks any climber that climbs without a pole saw is crazy becasue he doesn't know any better.
 
Re: drop a 75\' tree in a 50\' LZ

Yeah, we just want all the buzzers to live to become old buzzards. I for one wasn't trying to look down my nose at you. Like I said, I've blown out enough big crap to make me think a little longer sometimes about ALL the variables. Or at least all the ones that I am aware of. There's always something that we won't know...I don't care who is doing the job. I just wan't to hope that everyone can find the safest way to do the job. It's kind of a foolish hope because it is basically illogical, but anyway.
 
Re: drop a 75\' tree in a 50\' LZ

That was quite a rotten ash. You could have easily tied into that nearby tree. Otherwise, I didn't really think it was bad as it might have sounded in the previous posts. Can't get much deader than that, though. All I have to say is when I have a nearby tree I use it. There are days when you've got nothing around so when I've got the crutch I like to lean on it thankfully.
 
Re: drop a 75\' tree in a 50\' LZ

That is funny...

East Coast Nosak

Skills slightly above average at best..

That's what they say...

You could add fat, old, and lazy... might not be too far off
 
Re: drop a 75\' tree in a 50\' LZ

There was probably a chance to use a double tie in to position yourself over the ash. Hard to tell from the perspective shown.
 
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