DMM throw hook.

[WaitakKauri]

Hey how come the Kiwis get the cooler color version of 10mm Sirius? I'm going to go pout for a while.

Only the Captains were ordered in, so the kits were made up at Treetoools who chose the colour. Can't say I'm disappointed!

Been wanting a hook since I saw an Epple in use, then colemanjessenz's vids and the a Captain since DMM announced back in August. I've been watching this thread and anything hook related closely. The amount I learned here helped me make the decision. The quality of info and knowledge shared has been really amazing.

 

[WaitakKauri]

@WaitakKauri, Congratulations on acquiring such a fine piece of gear. It is just beautiful looking. I look forward to reading your posts about how well you get on with it.

Have a blast, man! I'm hoping to hear that it just makes the whole crown of the tree much more easily accessible.

Tim

Thanks Tim. I'm really looking forward to this, it's a big call to get a tool like this as a rec climber, but it's an investment I've been looking forward too and I will sacrifice many coffees. Climbing though, will be more enjoyable and there are new techniques to learn. (See, that's how it got off the want list and onto the needs list.)

I think the biggest thing will be speeding up my climbs with respect to traverses. I can see, especially for prunes in spreading canopies, the hook could really bring efficiency to the pros. I will certainly be able to move around the canopy more efficiently. The trees I often climb have many leaders and a short main trunk, so a hook will be really great.

 

[TimBr]

Remember, when it's possible, to try to hook a branch below the target crotch, in order to try to maintain tension on the hook and the line. I think that is a technique recommended by Reg Coates, for use with his grapple when doing traverses.

I'll try to find a link to that thread.

Tim

 

[moss]

Remember, when it's possible, to try to hook a branch below the target crotch, in order to try to maintain tension on the hook and the line. I think that is a technique recommended by Reg Coates, for use with his grappel when doing traverses.

Hooking a limb below your target branch is pretty sweet, you're giving yourself a stronger anchor since the line is over one branch and hooked to another, load is shared. However... when you have the hook on a branch without hooking below, it doesn't come off unless you send it slack intentionally. At least that's my experience. If you're hooking into the upper section of a tall conifer, definitely makes sense to hook it as attributed to Reg, distribute load as much as possible due to weaker/bendy wood.
-AJ

 

[DSMc]

...If you're hooking into the upper section of a tall conifer, definitely makes sense to hook it as attributed to Reg, distribute load as much as possible due to weaker/bendy wood.-AJ

True, AJ. Also many conifers have downward sloping limbs so hooking a limb that is below your support branch will tend to draw the hook closer to the trunk. But this is a judgment thing not to be used across all trees. Many hardwood trees have strongly ascending limbs and you will invariably be better off to just leave tbe hook in the targeted crotch.

 

[treegongfu]

I just attempted this manoeuvre in a silver maple. I couldn't make it work because the branch I was redirecting over wasn't in perfect vertical alignment with the branch below. Once over the redirect branch i lost the ability to induce the hook to swing.

I have to work on my in tree throwing skills. This was my first attempt and it wasn't efficient.

My modified bdb worked great with foot ascender and the Safari on the Captain.

 

[123Craig]

True, AJ. Also many conifers have downward sloping limbs so hooking a limb that is below your support branch will tend to draw the hook closer to the trunk. But this is a judgment thing not to be used across all trees. Many hardwood trees have strongly ascending limbs and you will invariably be better off to just leave tbe hook in the targeted crotch.

Too true.

I have never hooked and climbed off the lower limb yet - I know there will be pros and cons to it - but in general I think it will be harder to achieve, ie - orienting the hook when the rope is over two limbs as opposed to one.

As others have said before - introduce twist/s in the rope before flicking it if you want to turn the hook around. It will soon be quick and instinctual to do so. Obviously - this is quicker/easier if closer (less rope in the system to pass along the twist).

 

[moss]

Really great points DMSc, I hadn't thought of it that way but it is true, if the tree you're setting a hook has predominantly upward angled limbs you have to to hook directly to the limb, if they're angled downward, you pretty much have to get the line over and hook to a limb below to have a chance. I've only climbed white fir once in the Sierra's, it was hellacious. I was on a basal anchor and even though I was over at least 3 branches, everything was sloping down, rope sliding away from the trunk, was tricky to say the least.

 

[TimBr]

Hooking a limb below your target branch is pretty sweet, you're giving yourself a stronger anchor since the line is over one branch and hooked to another, load is shared. However... when you have the hook on a branch without hooking below, it doesn't come off unless you send it slack intentionally. At least that's my experience. If you're hooking into the upper section of a tall conifer, definitely makes sense to hook it as attributed to Reg, distribute load as much as possible due to weaker/bendy wood.
-AJ

Thanks for this post, moss. Great information to have. Thanks to all of the posters in this thread for all of the great comments. You folks that have the hardware and are willing to share your experiences are making life a lot easier for all of the rest who follow on.

It is interesting to learn about the subtle tricks of use that are needed to get the hook to perform at its best.

Tim

 

[123Craig]

Tim - to be honest with you - this is just fun; to be able to share your findings about something new is...

I was on the chipper all day yesterday... not that there isn't plenty to see and do there, but still... plenty days can be like this.

Most of the times I have used the hook, there simply wasn't any lower limb (never-mind it being conveniently directly below a short distance with the branches angled correctly).

I think the thing more important than the general angle of the branch is the actual angle of where the hook will be oriented when you have tension on it (and how this angle may change as your climbing position changes) You know, this is all part of the fun of it - again, it's all problem solving; it's a great tool - every single branch, limb, tree is going to be different.

On the left side of the page - the bottom row, right hand corner; the climber has the hook on a downward sloping branch, and is not tied in; if that climber were tied in, and they were on the opposite side of that tree (at roughly the same height) - that downward sloping branch might now be perfectly usable - because it is the angle that the hook is oriented (now at roughly 90 degrees to the branch angle) on the branch while under tension that matters most of all.



They couldn't possibly describe every tree climbing scenario that the hook may/may not be safe/unsafe useful or not - they're just trying to give us a little guidance to set us off. I think they know that people are going to start using it in all manner of ways. I think they just don't want anyone to be stupid, which is understandable.

 

[123Craig]

Maybe Moss or anyone can put my mind at ease on this question - I've been going round in circles the past few weeks trying to find something as simple as the Trango Cinch to ascend/descend secondary (hook) line.

I know that the cinch is not meant for anything bigger than 11mm but CAN it work on 11.7mm? - I have the Cougar Orange Rope.

 

[moss]

I just tried stuffing some 11.5mm Tachyon into the Cinch, no go, barely moves

 

[123Craig]

Thanks AJ.

 

[moss]

Do you have any 11mm line kicking around? I just tried some very broken in Velocity, it works but 10.5 or 10mm is so much better through the Cinch

 

[123Craig]

Do you have any 11mm line kicking around? I just tried some very broken in Velocity, it works but 10.5 or 10mm is so much better through the Cinch

I don't. I was hoping to avoid the whole buying a new line thing for a while as I've only recently got one specifically for the BDB. Trying not to spend more money. What area/country I live in is also very much up in the air, so I'm also just trying to minimise my gear. In the future I am seriously considering 11mm line as it seems ideal for most (not all) devices - despite my hands preferring thicker line. I have velocity on my rope bridge (came with the saddle). I also used to climb on velocity for my old boss (his rope). I'd consider it for the future - dunno if it'd fly with the bone. If the Akimbo is anything like the hype around it - it should be good for a wider range of ropes. I'll figure it out...

 

[moss]

Also, just tested Grigri II on Tachyon, it's tight but works fine and none of the problems Grigri II has with 10mm Sirius. The original Grigri or the Rig should be good with 11.7mm

 

[123Craig]

Also, just tested Grigri II on Tachyon, it's tight but works fine and none of the problems Grigri II has with 10mm Sirius. The original Grigri or the Rig should be good with 11.7mm

Thanks AJ - I'll look into that!

 

[TimBr]

Maybe Moss or anyone can put my mind at ease on this question - I've been going round in circles the past few weeks trying to find something as simple as the Trango Cinch to ascend/descend secondary (hook) line.

I know that the cinch is not meant for anything bigger than 11mm but CAN it work on 11.7mm? - I have the Cougar Orange Rope.

—————————
Moss responded: " I just tried stuffing some 11.5mm Tachyon into the Cinch, no go, barely moves."
—————————


You've probably already considered what I'm about to say, and dismissed it, but what about the Hitch Hiker2? Maybe twice the cost of the Trango Cinch, and not a mechanical, but fairly small and bombproof, and it could stay on the rope all of the time. Also, I think it can be used on just about any rope that would be appropriate for use with the hook.

That's about all I have, other than the idea that it might also be possible to set up a 3 to 1 mechanical advantage pulley with the Hitch Hiker2. Pulling with my arms seems to feel more natural sometimes, especially when I'm primarily trying to move laterally. The 3 to 1 makes that so easy.

Tim

 

[WaitakKauri]

I'm just planning to use a VT with HC for simple and smooth tending.

I have a short webbing loop with revolver for 3:1, but likely to just use a foot.

I plan to have a play in a biggish London Plane this weekend where the hook should shine.

 

[TimBr]

Hey, @WaitakKauri, are you saying that you are going to try to use just a pulley and a hitch on a single line configuration? Without a Rope Wrench or Hitch Hiker or other device to share friction with the hitch? I will be interested in how this turns out for you, if that is the case. Maybe for such short attempts at lowering, a friction sharing device is not needed.

Forgive me, please if I'm misunderstanding. It will be nice if it works out for you, as it would mean a simpler, less expensive system for everyone concerned.

Tim