balance point rigging

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Some balancing from today.
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Lol
 
Awesome Mark C, can't wait to see the pictures.

Riggs i've heard stories of your self made sailing winches. I would like to see what you had made. Need a ground guy some weekend? I can stand and look up in amazement.

Regs i have to ask but is there another line out at the tips? I've seen you use a lot of two line techniques with that new lower device. That and your a better man than me if you guessed that to be a little butt heavy! Keep up the good work
 
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One of the reasons I paid a couple grand for a deluxe Hobbs was to achieve a controlled lift on large branches/logs and minimize dynamic loading in critical strategic situations, exactly what they're designed to do.


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Hey Jomoco,

What's the difference in the "Deluxe Hobbs" and the regular Hobbs? All the Hobbs I've seen in the catalogs all look alike. Who sells the deluxe?
 
Couldn't really tell yu B2C since I've never really seen a regular Hobbs up close to compare against my deluxe Hobbs, which is over 11 years old now. It says deluxe model right on the unit though.

I'll take a few pics of it tomorrow and post them here for you though.

I kinda doubt they even sell the original Hobbs anymore.

I got mine from Blair at Sierra Moreno Mercantile

jomoco
 
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Regs i have to ask but is there another line out at the tips? I've seen you use a lot of two line techniques with that new lower device. That and your a better man than me if you guessed that to be a little butt heavy! Keep up the good work

[/ QUOTE ] No, there's no hidden lines involved....wouldn't reflect very well on my character now would it. The butt lifted up by no more than 10 inches when I sat on the swing.
 
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One of the reasons I paid a couple grand for a deluxe Hobbs was to achieve a controlled lift on large branches/logs and minimize dynamic loading in critical strategic situations, exactly what they're designed to do.


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Hey Jomoco,

What's the difference in the "Deluxe Hobbs" and the regular Hobbs? All the Hobbs I've seen in the catalogs all look alike. Who sells the deluxe?

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Apparently the deluxe Hobbs has been replaced by a newer model called an H2 Hobbs, with a more robust aluminum capstan B2C.

This is a short vid of my unit, which has served me very well for many years.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J7OH9AZ_s6U

jomoco
 
I've been speedlining a bunch of Doug-fir removals lately. I have been shooting a line into the tree and running my rope up over a large branch at the trunk, and back down the back side of the tree where it is terminated with a running bowline around the trunk. I am tensioning the line and "popping" the limbs up a bit with a snap cut. the groundmen continue to pull in line as the limb is sliding.

When I rig the girth-hitched sling near the balance point, I get the limb to slide more horizontally clearing shrubs and sheds below.

Without the balance point rigging, such as simply butt-tying, the tips would drop right away and drag through the rhododendrons or across the shed. I'll have some pictures of this next week, I think, which will clarify better than this description.

Just beware of the branch butt coming up toward you if you are on the front side of the tree. Better bet is to be on the backside, opposite the lower speedline anchor point.
 
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Regs i have to ask but is there another line out at the tips? I've seen you use a lot of two line techniques with that new lower device. That and your a better man than me if you guessed that to be a little butt heavy! Keep up the good work

[/ QUOTE ] No, there's no hidden lines involved....wouldn't reflect very well on my character now would it. The butt lifted up by no more than 10 inches when I sat on the swing.

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I thought it was an awesome picture. Wouldn't have held it against you if there was another rope. These days so many pictures are photo shopped or are illusions, it makes me question everything.

Great pick!
 
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I understand the argument of controlling the load is easier with this method. I understand the physics of it too.

But, has anyone thought of the physics for the spar?

I've seen the lateral force it puts on spars. I don't like it one bit.

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Like I said, watch the spar (where the block is attached) and tell me there isn't any unnecessary lateral force on the spar. I believe some one will put a block too high (as a compromise for clearing and obstacle below) and the top of a spar will fail.

If this method is going to be "bomb proof," I believe the choice of where the block is placed is crucial.

Daniel: I'm not saying you can't gauge where to place it.

I'm just concerned for two types of people who will try/use this technique; The "greenhorns" may try this and get hurt. (In many ways previously described)

Or, complacent/experienced/cocky people may try to get away with more than the tree can handle.

And yes I understand, that paragraph above, can apply (in principle) to all methods and techniques with the dismantling of a tree.
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Reg has a REAL new rigging technique...DOUBLE Balance Point Rigging! Or maybe Compound Balance Point Rigging.

This technique is only new if you haven't learned it before. Marv taught me about tip, belly/gut and tail/butt rigging over 30 years ago...using half inch hemp or sisal rope. Take wraps, no rigging devices either. If I EVER let the butt come anywhere in his direction my ear would get bit!

Marv also taught me to only work as hard as I needed. Why run out to the end of a branch to tip tie when a hinged butt cut would be better?
 
Well as long as you know there are situations that demand a tip tie, and you can tie it at the proper place to pull it all off without getting hurt. This often requires perfect teamwork between the rope crew and climber.

It's really the most challenging aspect of being a strategic removal climber. Confidence in your ability to predict/make the tree come down exactly as you want it to on each cut is absolutely vital to not getting hurt or killed in the process of makin it happen in the tree.

Surprises can be deadly.

Just an opinion of course. And I do believe in conservation of energy more and more as I get older now Tom

jomoco
 
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Marv also taught me to only work as hard as I needed. Why run out to the end of a branch to tip tie when a hinged butt cut would be better?

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C'mon Tom..
NFW would a hinge alone be able to steer those big oak limbs laterally to get them to clear the obstacle trees. Nor would butt tying give the needed clearance from the ground. There was a rose garden in the forground and dogwood and crabapple on either side of the LZ. Nor would I be inclined to slam such large limbs into the rigging, especially when I was tied in above the single natural crotch lowerintg point. And butt tying would have made them a lot harder to handle on the ground to get them into that fairly tight LZ...

I know picture quality and screen size make tree vids challenging to see much detail in on youtube. Yet I think the above metioned aspects of this job are readily apparent to someone with even moderate understanding of tree rigging.

As far as lateral forces getting put on the overhead rigging point, that is a subject due some discussion. This job resulted in more lateral force than most near balance point rigging scenarios, becasue the limbs had to be swung so far sideways to clear the other trees. And the lateral force was very controlled and smooth. I'll take that over the shock loading created by butt tying.
 
Ok, Murph. I'll give you a 12 out of a possible 10. Great vid, great tunes, excellent rigging (I thought it was better than that in the tulip vid of a few weeks ago), good filming (both closeups and wide angle) and very nice climbing. I would love to see a bit more climbing footage, of climbing out and climbing back on those limbs, and around the tree. You definetly included some, but would love to see more.

Did that climber use a hitch tending pulley?

Looked like a white oak dead limb as the last cut.

Great job, Murph.

How many good climbers do you have on your staff??
 
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I'll take that over the shock loading created by butt tying.

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Since when does butt tying = shock loading?
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It isn't a given that every time some one butt ties, it is going to shock load.

Wouldn't we all agree that the shock (in any lowering technique) can be mitigated with the person running the ropes?
 
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