X-rigging rings

So is anyone else using the double large x rings as a replacement for a block ? I just spliced two of them onto a 5/8ths tenex sling about 4ft total length with a cordura sleeve to use as a rigging point for my 1/2" & 9/16ths rigging lines...anyone use this setup and if so what do you think about it?
 
Well I was late to the game with this (Tom Hoffmann got his done first). When I received the big ring this was the first thing I thought of. An overhand knot in 1/2" rigging line easily passes through the larger ring and catches on the smaller ring. Just like a plain old R&r friction saver I guess you can call this a X-R&r.

It is just under 8' long (7'9"), made of 3/4" Husky Double Braid Bull Rope with a published MBS of 23,000 lbs.

The new 38x28 XRR is made exclusively for XAS. Pretty cool, cant wait to try it out.

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So is anyone else using the double large x rings as a replacement for a block ? I just spliced two of them onto a 5/8ths tenex sling about 4ft total length with a cordura sleeve to use as a rigging point for my 1/2" & 9/16ths rigging lines...anyone use this setup and if so what do you think about it?

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I would love to. Are they available to ‘us’ yet?
 
I believe he is referring to using two of the Large, 28/20, XRRS.

The sling I just posted has a X-LargeXRR, 38/28 and a LargeXRR 28/20

I have a 2 ring sling with two 28/20's and it is plenty strong and robust even for heavy rigging. What this new X-large ring has going for it is the ability to interface with the large ring in the traditional R&r fashion. Using a Large and a Medium, 28/20 & 20/14 doesnt provide enough sling strength for heavy rigging IMHO.
 
That is a good looking sling Nick. When I look at that it just feels like work will be easier. Which came first, beauty or easier work?

Happy is the man who has his family participating or fully behind him - nice!
 
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diagram 3, Three rings. Increased bend radius!

350364-bendradiusthreerings.jpg




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When it comes back to two rings or three, my mind remembers this picture and three rings just feels more comfortable to me. The post preceding this David had drawn a picture with two rings and showed how it gives the same bend radius as one ring.

Is that factually correct according to physics? Would two XRR’s break or wear rope as readily as one XRR? I don’t know and am not going to spend the tens of thousands of dollars I think it would take to prove it out.

I watched David’s original ‘test to destruction’ XRR video and said that’s good enough for me. I can always stay way under those parameters.

In looking back I see David said something about “Also for ease of use we are offering and adjustable sling as well, sometimes referred to as a whoopie.” The second your offer is ready to be shipped, I want one. Beast XRR, large XRR, and Beast XRR?????
 
Merle, no doubt in my mind, three is better than two <u> of the same size</u>. But good bend radius is not absolute it is relative to the rope diameter. That means that, if it's humongous enough, a single XRR could work fine.

For practical application, what I want to know is are two beasts equal to three large?

OF


PS, Nick, your splicing is looking all-pro!
 
Great looking rig there nick, why did you make it so long tho? Is it so it would be easier to install in a crotch... Meaning that you could just throw one ring over what ever crotch you chose as a rigging point and then just equal it out and install the rigging line?... I can't wait to use mine with my freshly spliced husky 9/16ths line
 
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... are two beasts equal to three large?



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Without a doubt. 2 38/28 (Beast) XRRs provides a bend radius comparable to a standard tailboard block.

Maybe its from my time as a rock climber, taking falls on a single carabiner thats less than 10mm thick but I put a lot less stock in the bend radius thing than most. Obviously with rigging its different dynamics than rock climbing, different loads, tools, materials etc... I get that. I have also seen rounds of wood neg blocked onto an aluminum carabiner. Am I recommending that? No. What I am saying is that the bend radius of a 38/28 XXR and a 28/20 XRR is minimum 3" (76mm), assuming they are flush against each other which isnt how they sit in practical use.

3" is plenty.
 
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Great looking rig there nick, why did you make it so long tho? Is it so it would be easier to install in a crotch... Meaning that you could just throw one ring over what ever crotch you chose as a rigging point and then just equal it out and install the rigging line?... I can't wait to use mine with my freshly spliced husky 9/16ths line

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Thanks Ralph, picture doesnt work...

I made it that length because that was the minimum length possible following the NE Ropes instructions precisely. 3/4's rope fid length is 15.75" or so... the 5 fids of rope beyond mark D was the killer. Looking at it in retrospect the length is fine. When we set a block from the ground with a bullrope there is always enough stretch that the block drops down 3-4' feet from the anchor point (or more), so having an 8' sling and letting the rigging point slack 3-4' is not a big deal. Plus for ground level redirects the length will allow me to use larger trees.

Thanks for the feedback!
 
I agree, Nick. It sure looks that way to me. Theoretically at least.

Remember the one piece of empirical testing we have from David's work:

when severely overloaded and tested to destruction, .75 SB breaks at the load when top-rigged with three (3) 28/20XRR; it breaks a the rings with two (2)28/20.

I want to see one of you young turks drop a volkwagen on two Beasts.

OF
 
I have used a single large ring to rig a top out. I would say it has a similar bend radius to a small micro pulley. This is what I used to use. The x-rings are way stronger than anything I am going to put into them.
 
You provide the volkswagon and I will do the rest.

Heres some photos to illustrate bend radius of common tools, the XRRs and some 1/2" double braid.

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(Argh, for some reason if I dont remove the location info it wont post the embedded picture or attached??)
 
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An old classic, but BIGGER .....

XRR rR Friction Saver

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Sorry, Guys. It would have been more understandable if I had shown this as part of the video. Pix courtesy Luke...

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Tom, that's REALLY COOL how you thought for those of us that don't splice and talked about putting the new Xtra large beast ring into the eye and wrapped it up with stretchy thin cord!!!

I'm going to do that to a few and work with them, THANKS!
 
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Heres some photos to illustrate bend radius of common tools, the XRRs and some 1/2" double braid.




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NICK, THAT PHOTO IS EXCELLENT showing other tools and bend radius. Brilliant photo! Can I use it to show people if I need to?

WE have so much great stuff with rings to show on video, I just don't have the time, it's because very little is made off of these rings and slings and I do have a more important job that actually makes money which also keeps bailing out XAS since XAS can't sustain itself yet.

We even did the car thing back this late winter. Not actually "dropping it" as in shock loading, but raised it maybe 30 feet with the k-boom crane, then transferred it to a 7/8" rope with ALL XRR slings in the system. It showed their strength (the 28x20, not the beast), but the main thing was I wanted to show how important redirects are so that you don't break out a thin final rigging point. Then we slowly removed the redirects......
 
Oh and Nick, glad you showed a porta wrap.

on our heat demonstration, we used a stainless steel large porta wrap to lower a log very fast from our crane. I've never shown the really fast runs yet, only a medium speed run I think in an XRR video.

anyway, with the triple XRR sling (it has 3 of the 28x20s)the rope running through them was not smoking, NOT glazing. However, at the same time, the stainless porta wrap had smoke rolling off of it and it was just that one bare minimum wrap on the porty. THAT WAS very impressive to us. The run was fast enough to smoke the rope on the large porta wrap and glaze it but the three rings used as the terminal lowering point was not getting anywhere near hot like the porta wrap. The hard coat anodize is amazing stuff.

I think they make a porta wrap with hard coat anodize now, right?
 
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NOW I'm ready to buy. I am assuming that a combo of the XL ring and the small ring will create the bend radius needed for a retrievable rigging point without the use of a block? Anybody know if Xman is looking into a huge teardrop style? Also, could you make a carabiner through this process? It seems like it would be tough enough to take some of the weight off of the hitch hiker... Man that would be slick! A HH made using this anodizing process... Just a thought...or several

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I'm not interested in having them make teardrop thimbles, the whole process of how they are made would be changed very drastically and you all are not buying enough of them as it is
smirk.gif
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The perfect circle has it's advantages.

Remember this is all machined aluminum. I like them that way too.

This way, they don't "break", they would thin out and elongate when put to extreme breaking. (that reminds me, I think someone else was asking what those figures were on the distortion).

If you got a fiber or cable strong enough and put them in a break test machine and brought the tension up to wear the ring finally distorts; if the fiber could hold long enough the ring would thin out it's thickness and elongate, not snap. Under enough tension to distort, the ring would act like as if it was made out of chewing gum. If that makes sense.

machining a teardrop one would likely cost a lot more to machine and make it too pricy. Teardrop thimbles should likely be cast or forged. Not something I'm interested in. THESE rings are about as perfect as they can get, (for RIGGING, that is...)

Oh, please don't think I'm bashing your thoughts. keep em coming. Yes, someone should make aluminum biners and tons of other aluminum stuff with hard coat anodizing. But the problem is, it would last too long and most money smart producers don't want things to last long. That pretty color anodize wears off way too fast in my opinion. It sucks if you are actually going to work with that jewelry, it doesn't stay pretty for very long.
 
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I agree, Nick. It sure looks that way to me. Theoretically at least.

Remember the one piece of empirical testing we have from David's work:

when severely overloaded and tested to destruction, .75 SB breaks at the load when top-rigged with three (3) 28/20XRR; it breaks a the rings with two (2)28/20.

I want to see one of you young turks drop a volkwagen on two Beasts.

OF

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Tom,
Thanks for bringing up the shock load break testing.

A real slight correction though. The rope would break at the ring when using a SINGLE ring. I don't think we did two ring testing because that bend radius was too similar to a single ring, (yet others speculate two is still a little better than one and they are probably right). We jumped right from a single ring to a triple ring.

Not only is the new "beast" wider it also has a longer spread out bend.

I can't answer where big diameter rope will break at the moment when using one, two or three beasts, but all of your comments and speculation is likely right on.

IF you guys want the beast rings, you can buy through Xtreme Arborist Supply since no one is carrying them yet.

Or bug Luke at treestuff for them so he asks me to send him a box.
 
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