Two Rope Climbing

America demands the American Clacker. I'd really like to play with one. I feel like I would grate benefit from it as I am often using my tail as a second climbing system and run the risk of dropping debris into the belly of the system. I think this would negate a lot of that. having said that, I do love the ability to add and subtract the tail system as needed without a second line. I do like that clacker though. Very genious.
 
I ran a 'triple threat' system a while back for a few months - 1 rope joined to 2 ropes, on a basal anchor. Made for a lot of nice setups. To retrieve just pull the one with the least friction. They were semi-permanently joined with an openable ring, which was a pain. Something easier to take apart would be a lot better. Maybe a delta link.

A second rope in DdRT removes so much of the complexity for me in 2 rope climbing. Deploy as needed, retrieve any time and re-deploy. I don't love climbing on my tail because so often it complicates the act of bombing down quickly if you had to. You get stuck in the loop...
 
I will use an SRS and MRS in questionable trees or if I need to work a wide canopy. Here’s a situation where 2 systems were necessary. There wasn’t anything above and the tree in a fence row was reaching for the sun. I’ve never used or rented a lift or bucket and the septic tank was below. The angle from the closest tree for a limb walk wasn’t doable in my mind. I thought too much of a risk from a big swing. I put my SRS in primary tree and MRS in a secondary. I then walked both up, reached over and removed 3 limbs. Done! And…No I didn’t head cut, it was 3 smaller ones reaching downward.IMG_4475.png
 
Steve Connally said:
America demands the American Clacker. I'd really like to play with one. I feel like I would grate benefit from it as I am often using my tail as a second climbing system and run the risk of dropping debris into the belly of the system. I think this would negate a lot of that. having said that, I do love the ability to add and subtract the tail system as needed without a second line. I do like that clacker though. Very genious.
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Cool thing is you can knock one up from existing parts. Or splice one. Worst case ask someone with a stitching machine. Alex Q just made one from two Fimbl Savers.
 
oceans said:
That was my response to pretty much everything over there in its natural habitat, or more importantly, growing from seed and not coming out of a nursery that exacerbated some natural trait into poor structure.
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That's it! Norway maple, A. platanoides looks great and has very different growth habit (sturdy tall bole etc) in mature Northern European forest. As opposed to messed up multi-leader hollow limb/trunk examples in North American suburban and urban context. Same for Zelkova and even mature Ailanthus altissima, they look gorgeous growing in a self-germinated forest setting.

And I hear you on cultivars, "Princeton Elm" can equal Zelkova cultivars in out-of-control co-dominant crown structure when open grown. If there is not very regular pruning attention over the first 15 or so years of the landscape tree's life.

I digress from 2-rope systems ;-)
-AJ
 
moss said:
That's it! Norway maple, A. platanoides looks great and has very different growth habit (sturdy tall bole etc) in mature Northern European forest. As opposed to messed up multi-leader hollow limb/trunk examples in North American suburban and urban context. Same for Zelkova and even mature Ailanthus altissima, they look gorgeous growing in a self-germinated forest setting.

And I hear you on cultivars, "Princeton Elm" can equal Zelkova cultivars in out-of-control co-dominant crown structure when open grown. If there is not very regular pruning attention over the first 15 or so years of the landscape tree's life.

I digress from 2-rope systems ;-)
-AJ
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A digression from an ol Buzzer isn’t necessarily unwelcome especially when you admit to it.

Two ropes are definitely handy sometimes.
 
telecasterfool said:
I will work on a picture for you, when I have it set up - are you interested in the bridge setup, or the saw/weight, rope grab and Druid? or both?

When I started I read an article about an arborist who was subsequently certified in rope access. He discussed the differences and the benefits of that second line. I was brand new and working for myself so I ran two complete systems - very slowly! Since then I have continued to make my system more efficient, but more importantly, think about and plan my work around two systems. I live in spreading tree country, so sometimes having the systems on opposite sides is helpful (not 40' from each other - maybe 20') In my opinion, the biggest safety gain is during the initial ascent, before you have seen the tree from above. If the ascent will be long, I ascend with a Tazlove2 and switch to two Druids and use RADS. If no long ascent, I will RADS up. I can carabiner the two ropes together above the Druids and run both with one hand - more pressure on one will change the trajectory of descent. Rope management is definitely increased. I still usually lanyard in when cutting, but once in a while, it's nice to not have to. Hope this helps.
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That's a really interesting idea. When you carabineer the two ropes together, do you then need to tether the carabineer to yourself somewhere so that the carabineer follows you as you descend or move around the canopy?
 
islandarb said:
I use 2 runners mostly. Sometimes 2 wrenches. Seldom any MRS, except whenI incorporate my tail. Never probs with twisting. I easily am always repositioning one line when I know the moves I need to make. I ascend one line and adjust other to suit, I can easily redirect either to gain required work position. I set both from the ground. Cool to use on wide spreading trees. Did it today, two runners.
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When you climb on two runners, do you feel like they kind of get in each other's way?

What's your bridge setup like?
 
dtreez said:
That's a really interesting idea. When you carabineer the two ropes together, do you then need to tether the carabineer to yourself somewhere so that the carabineer follows you as you descend or move around the canopy?
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I never have, but you could. With two climbing lines, you probably don't want to add a tether line - it turns into spaghetti pretty quick! The carabiner stays put with both lines weighted. As soon as tension is relieved on either line, it descends to you.
 
I primarily climb DdRT and will use two systems quite often. Typically it’s when working in wide spread trees. I’ll set a main TIP and then use the secondary when working the outer areas if I think it could help improve work positioning, etc. I’m comfortable climbing with my line at odd angles but if you got the gear and there’s ways you can get be more comfortable and safe why not right?

Sometimes I’ll stay tied into both systems or just alternate between the two. I’ve done this both on pruning and removals. Could also be used with some crane jobs. Set a main TIP to use when making cuts and use the other when riding the ball to set your slings (if you’re permitted to ride the ball). Some trees like pine, where you may be picking everything above you this may not make much sense. But on wider spread ones that have multiple leads or long limbs that go far out it might help a little.

Might’ve already been mentioned but a secondary system can also be used when ascending to advance a TIP. Allowing the climber to maintain their current TIP while positioning the next. And for this purpose you don’t actually need a full length of climbing rope. A smaller “mini” system can be just as sufficient. This is also true for work positioning if that’s primarily what you’re using a secondary system for rather than any kind of significant ascending / descending where you don’t need as long of a tail as your main system. Just be mindful of how much rope you have left. You could tie a knot at the end as a safety measure.
 
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Muggs said:
I ran a 'triple threat' system a while back for a few months - 1 rope joined to 2 ropes, on a basal anchor. Made for a lot of nice setups. To retrieve just pull the one with the least friction. They were semi-permanently joined with an openable ring, which was a pain. Something easier to take apart would be a lot better. Maybe a delta link.

A second rope in DdRT removes so much of the complexity for me in 2 rope climbing. Deploy as needed, retrieve any time and re-deploy. I don't love climbing on my tail because so often it complicates the act of bombing down quickly if you had to. You get stuck in the loop...
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Also can’t a butterfly knot be made at TIP and a quicke added with another rope and butterfly knot added. I think I saw Jared abrogena show us that at an aborfest.
 
oceans said:
Two lines cannot possibly be beat for ghosting across trees. There are a bunch of lanyard tricks but, the right 2 line setup is clutch. I’ve had 2 line climbs on which I didn’t need a lanyard at all, and some where it was only needed to hold an off angle position while setting a redirect.

Fully aware that production is still important, it can be a good mental exercise to fly 2 lines right off the bat.

You can set one line and attach a second before pulling it up, creating an inverted ’Y’ configuration. You can also attach 2 separate lines to the throw line and create 2 independent base anchoed systems.

For ultimate freedom of movement, the Helicopter Belay is also the jam IMO. I had a RE Nano on each Bone, going into a Delta Link, going into a bridge swivel. The Delta had a rubber spacer to keep the Nano eyes apart. You could substitute the Delta for a RE Pirate, also with a rubber spacer.

The Camp Gyromania does look the business, but I do believe the Helicopter Belay as I described above ends up more compact as there are 0 crabs involved vs 3. That’s no criticism, both have their ups and downs.

As long as your gear makes you feel dead sexy. Get on my saddle!

As far as 2 bridges, I think that’s great for the redundancy factor, and also when transferring because you can load one system in direct tension before releasing the other. That’s a plus. These days it’s both bridges through the same swivel.

@Treetopflyer , sorry for being out of the loop. The Flu just ran through my house. It’s been rough.

@Muggs , your system definitely rocks!
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What is this mentioned Helicopter Belay ?
 
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