Treemotion, again....

Familytree and others,

Sorry about not having the bridge material in stock when you called. Dave (purchasing) recently asked me about how much to stock and i suggested "enough to never run out" (same response i always give). the fact is that this should have been ordered with all necessary replacement parts but wasn't. We're (again) addressing that. Seems that such details, whether directed by me personally or some others, just gets lost in the shuffle of new items. If bridge material isn't in yet it will be soon and shouldn't be high priced ( Teufelberger is quite competative on the international market, TM critics aside). In case you didn't know, Teufelberger (maker of TreeMotion) recently acquired New England ropes! Now it will be pronounced Hi-Wee Safcee Blu

And as for you tophopper... man, relax a bit bro. I've never heard someone get so wound up on a pretty decent product. Although the waist belt thing sounds peculiar i've not heard such buyers remorse since my dad bought the Snow Bunny back in '79 (a tan & white Volkswagen Vanagon named by friends in college because we never had to rent a room when skiing). If your TM's that big a drag i'll make it right. As my wife will attest, i've waited over a year to own my own TM because everytime a load comes in they're all called for! No, i would never consider keeping something someone else wanted, ask anybody, i'm simply wired that way thanks to my dear old Pop.

Tophop- i appreciate your remorse trait, honesty. It's kind of quirky but human. i ment no disrespect.
About the buckle, wouldn't it be impossible to fall out of the saddle even if the waist belt opened under full suspension? Even if attached only by a lanyard to hip dees too? just asking. You'll know for sure but from my recollection (i'm answering without a harness to examine) there isn't.

Best to all and stay cool this toasty summer!
 
Wow,

You all act as if i said the saddle was garbage.
Did I say the saddle was garbage? No- I basically said I dont think its all its hyped up to be and a bit overpriced.
Am I completely dissatisified with it? No- It is a good saddle, it is comfortable, and it has many features that I do like.

I just wanted to point out a few things that I didnt like and voice my concern about the buckles. And Tobe , you are right, no I probably wouldnt have fell out of the harness if it had opened like you mentioned under full suspension. But can you honestly say you wouldnt be a little concerned if you bent over wearing one and the waist buckle comes undone then when you stand up the harness drops to your knees?

and just to clarify. I am still using the TM daily, I switched back to my Bfly for 2 days, and although I still find it comfortable, I have become accustomed to the setup of my TM. So I will continue using it, until something better comes along.

Did my original post really come off as that remorseful Tobe? Thats not what I intended, just meant to be honest about my expereince with it without sugar coating it.
 
So now that I have gotten the attention of the manufacturer, and primary distributor of this product, I am hoping you guys may take a closer look at the buckle issue.

my intent is not to bad mouth your product, I am just being honest and not trying to bull$hit anyone.

So what say you?
 
hey tobe, i appreciate you addressing the situation with the rope bridge, i am thinking about switching to 8mm beeline cordage because the tan color goes well with my beard and brings out the green in my eyes (joke of course) but i am seriously considering the switch, because it is more affordable and i believe that it can take a better beating, but thanks again for addressing the situation.

tophopper, im with you on most of the issues addressed, my buckle came undone as well while climbing the otherday, but only in full suspension work mode and i wasnt going anywhere, but it definatly does open your eyes a bit, i didnt check to see if both sides of the clip were engaged so im pretty sure that it was my fault. i also made the switch from a b2 to a tm and honestly the tm has been that much more comfortable for me, i think its because of the back padding and the leg bracing constuction, but thats just me...
 
I can't speak for the manufacturer but it concerns me that any buckle (non-critical or otherwise) can come open without the wearer fully intending to release it. I will forward this thread.

As for the bridge cordage issue oh Familyman, i would encourage you to stick with the manufacturers recommended material for several reasons; the first being that anyone in your company who's color-matching your eyes with material residing around your crotch should... be reassigned to the lawn manicure division - shrub styling department by sunset today.

Although i honestly don't see cause for alarm, I strongly recommend you stick with Teufelberger's material. I'll pass on your theory that the material may not be lasting as it should and if that turns to be the case i'll freebie you a couple bridges of whatever replaces it. Fair enough?

"We are the Aquateens?"... any chance you're a graduate of some other department?
 
hey tobe, your right in your concern about the bridge color, but i love to look my best, i already placed an order with you yesterday for beeline cordage to replace the bridge, along with a few other things, do you think this will be okay, my bridge is still okay for now, ill ask around about switching the cordage before i do it. and as far as the aquateens go... you know what, there is no way i could even describe that show to you without sounding absolutly crazy, im just going to let ya figure that one out for yourself, just ask any 18-25 year old that you may work with about it, ill let them take the heat. thanks tobe

marc powell
 
I agree with you Top, making everyone aware of a possible safety issue is great. Because of the two mentions I've read so far, I now take an extra second to jiggle my buckles to be sure both sides engage properly. I also believe (like Tobe) that this isn't the biggest issue. Even if two buckles opened, I would think that I'd need to be upside down to fall out. Still, I double check them now.

All in all I choose to use the TM daily in the work place. I too feel that it is a better fit for me right now than my BFLY is. I cannot compare it to the TFLX yet since I have to replace my bridge that came a mon th ago (
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) but hope to do that soon.

One thing I will say is I don't think the small differences between two similar designs will change how good of a climber you are. That being said, the difference between these styles and the old "economy" style my brother wears
tongue.gif
can actually enhance your climbing!
 
I suppose it depends on the personal paradigm of what improved climbing is.

I think (and maybe what Mark is alluding to?) that unrestricted movement, unimpeded breathing and centralised carrying of a chainsaw are the real improvements to anyones climbing; injury reduction = increased performance = profit.

Educating Arborists about the benefits of bio-mechanical efficiency is our mission. Any harness is an essential platform that either does or doesn't allow that, in varying degrees. It is key to bio-mechanically efficient work - what is the point of rehabilitating injuries to have them daily de-railed by an inefficient work platform???

I get the most satisfaction from climbers telling us our design has cured their back pain. We researched a great recipe, STL cooked it up, and it seems the proof of our pudding is in the eating. Body bio-mechanics is science not say-so.

Some economy will always be false. You can take a horse to water.....
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I've seen the TreeFlex in photographs and from what the manufacturers say it seems to me that this harness represents a paradigm shift in how we approach professional treeclimbing...I look forward to trying it.
 
Buckles? Not something I want to be double checking.and of course not for 5 bills. I guess my suspicions were correct.Lots of show little bit of go.

Think about if I had bought that saddle how much would I complain then?
 
You don't double check buckles? Good luck. Just pause before posting and consider the implications of what you're about to say.

Based on that statement I'd urge you to seriously consider whether you should be working at height...

Oh, and by the way, you don't have to buy the harness, so breathe and relax.

I don't know why but I find attitudes like this increasingly annoying. Maybe it's just me getting older and grouchy.
 
Of course I double check things. I think you had best consider the implications of what you say.
If you have to keep checking to see if your flashy piece of equipment is still together throught the climb well what good is it? My wife just got a pretty flashy car, it is always beeping and locking me in, i find it confusing and don't wish to take the time to find out why it beeps all the time. I am scared to push the 4 x4 switch. It also has a lot of skid control options which are just lurking around waiting to break. I find that since I drive good enough to keep me from wrecking the bells and whistles are not worth the grief. I think they put the stuff in there for people who can't operate a car. To quote TreeCo" you will find that you don't need flashy gear if you know what you are doing". Ahhmen
Once a weaver is on, it is not going to come inadvertantly apart. double checking it is good but it is just like putting on a regular jeans belt, when was the last time your pants fell down?

I know what I am talking about or I don't talk unless maybe to ask a question. I have tried a few saddles with quick release buckels and have opened them in a tree just by moving around. I think I did consistantly with the aussie saddle sometime ago.

My attitude is not the best, clearly, when it comes to jackassery, flashy crap, or people that talk and can't do. I am speaking generally so don't get offeneded, I sure as hell ain't. and I am getting old and grouchy as well.

It gets tough trying to keep track of what was said but thank you for taking the time with your input. Jees you are all so sensitve, aren't any of you married? Ben

Oh then theres this: What would be more pathetic? A guy who wants to drive back to the yard to geta throwball, or a 400.00 a day climber who wastes time fiddling with his saddle. A long time ago I left my saddle on the last job so I just made a rope saddle and went up the next job and had it done when by the time they went and got my other saddle.
 
[ QUOTE ]
You don't double check buckles? Good luck. Just pause before posting and consider the implications of what you're about to say.

Based on that statement I'd urge you to seriously consider whether you should be working at height...

Oh, and by the way, you don't have to buy the harness, so breathe and relax.

I don't know why but I find attitudes like this increasingly annoying. Maybe it's just me getting older and grouchy.

[/ QUOTE ]

MarkB,

Why would you need to double check the buckles on a Weaver? I believe Bsaville uses a Weaver. The buckles on the Weaver/Sierra Moreno are safer than the buckles on a treeMotion/AustriaDuo IMHO.

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The double pin buckels are not inherently unsafe. They are used in many items of PPE in many different areas. I find it diffuclt to believe that we should be the only industry not able to come to grips with the concept of double checking central elements of PPE.

Come on, guys, what's the point you're trying to prove here?!
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[ QUOTE ]
My wife just got a pretty flashy car, it is always beeping and locking me in,

[/ QUOTE ] I was going to add a joke to that statement but I didn't as it would have been cheap shot!

Take it easy Ben, may I call you Ben?

There appears to be an abundance of satisfied TM owners on this forum which must reassure you a little, surely!

The longevity issue is subjective to the individual climber activity IMO, just like a pair of boots.

Flashy or not, how about offering a little less cynicism towards regular individuals who have at least had the balls to take an idea and make it happen; instead of just submitting cheap nit-picking criticisms. Anyone can sit back and be an armchair critic, that’s very convenient.

As for suggesting that retailers should employ a harness borrowing facility....what if everyone wanted to borrow at the same time? And should that facility extend into other areas of equipment? Where do you draw the lines? I can't see how that would be practical.

If the weaver suits you so well, why not stick with it? Why choose join in with stuff (thread) that doesn't even affect you? No need to sound so negative Bsaville, you’ll drag everybody down. And yes, I'm married and have skin like rubber!
 
[ QUOTE ]
The double pin buckels are not inherently unsaft. They are used in many items of PPE in many different areas. I find it diffuclt to believe that we should be the only industry not able to come to grips with the concept of double checking central elements of PPE.

[/ QUOTE ]

There are some designs of belt buckles you don't need to double check, when there done up, thats it, there is no need to double check them, but I understand what you're implying.


.
[ QUOTE ]

Come on, guys, what's the point you're trying to prove here?!
confused.gif


[/ QUOTE ]

Not trying to prove anything, just discussing a topical issue.
 
Come on with the cheap shots,it can't be worse to see me trying to open a car door or when I keep locking myself out.Why do you need the doors to lock when you start a car. why does it need to keep beeping at me? What do all those buttons really do?

Its not a borrowing system, it more like the store just having some demos and a tree out back.

Besides what is worse driving back for a throwball ten miles or a 400.00 a day climber fiddling with a very intricate saddle on the job?

I apparently was not the only one who felt this way so really my questioning is not out of line. I have read worse.

It is not like I have no idea what I am talking about and really I am not bashing the saddle. I am bashing flashey crap, but thenI am just a simple guy.

I have used things with quick release buckles and was shocked at how easy they could inadvertantly be un latched.

Thanks for responding,Ben
 
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