Social media comments on your business posts

climbingmonkey24

Carpal tunnel level member
Location
United States
I stay active across social media, including Nextdoor. I try to post a combination of projects we’ve done or are doing, and tips for homeowners regarding tree and property maintenance, etc.

Recently I made a post on Nextdoor about how it’s a good idea to periodically take a look up at your trees, that sometimes larger trees can accumulate larger sized deadwood, and depending on the location of the tree, pruning to remove these branches can be beneficial for tree health and safety.

Someone commented saying how encouraging pruning this time of year isn’t a good practice, that it could harm bird nests and kill baby birds, and asked if we had an arborist who is ISA certified on our staff.

I responded stating that the purpose of the post was to provide tips to homeowners regarding tree and property maintenance, and in the case of the photos featured with the post, pruning and removal was necessary due to some hazards with the trees including large dead branches over an area where kids play, and two leaning trees near a house one of which had ants and a hollow area; also that not all forms of pruning need to wait until winter / dormant season, and that we take protecting the environment very seriously; that if we do come across an active birds nest, we will do our best not to disturb it, and if it’s in an area where the work can’t be delayed, then perhaps we would consult with a wildlife expert, or relocate to a nearby branch or tree, etc.

Which is true, we don’t intentionally go out trying to harm anything.

I didn’t respond to the certified arborist part. No, we do not currently have a certified arborist on staff, which is why none of our profiles state “certified arborist”. And I don’t believe it makes us any less qualified for the work we do. I know my limitations of what I feel I can and shouldn’t give an opinion on. I don’t get asked very often, and when I do I just state I’m not, but I have not encountered many situations where it makes someone hesitant to hire us. Our reputation and extensive project portfolio on our website I think speaks for itself. We try to do things the right way, utilizing proper pruning practices, and advocating for the preservation of tree as often as possible by offering pruning solutions in situations where removal may not always be necessary.

The main question is, do you ever see these types of comments pop up on your business posts, where you think what you’re posting is entirely harmless, neutral, and with good intent, yet somehow someone who you’ve never even dealt with in-person has something negative to say? Does this become more pronounced the bigger your company gets?

To be fair, the individual’s comment wasn’t necessarily rude-like, but it just comes across as though they’re forming an opinion about how we operate based off one post. I did end my response by saying I can appreciate their concern for the birds and for raising awareness on the subject.
 
If you sip from the social media cup for business purposes, expect it to be bitter from time to time.

It’s free advertising for a reason.
I was going to say the same thing. It sounds like you handled it very well. If it were me, the only thing I would have done differently is directly answer the question about ISA Certification. Get ahead of that and drive the narrative like you did with the other comments they made. We post infrequently on Instagram but I'm usually not the one making the posts and I never read the comments. This work is hard enough already without worrying about that bullshit.
 
The certified arb title doesn’t hold much weight with me, yes I have it. Have I worked along side absolute hacks who also have it and only got it as a marketing tool? Absolutely, and that’s where I struggle with it. Nextdoor is like playing slots at the casino it can really pay out some cash because atleast around here the church flies and older crowd all use it and ALL communicate outside of it.
 
Nextdoor is probably one of the worst, whiniest, NIMBY 'communities' on the internet, don't worry too much about what the loudest people there say... That said, the common advice I see given to homeowners on reddit at least, and probably other places, is to always ask a tree company if they are certified arborists (instead of just those dirty 'tree guys') and to get proof of insurance, etc. So I see why people ask the question, with the idea it may filter out some of the lower quality companies out there, though that's not always the case. Like other said, I think you handled it well, but don't get too worked up over online comments, and honestly, maybe it's worth getting certified just give a simple 'yes' answer to that question and move on.
 
I have asked clients not to put me forward on the ‘does anyone know a tree surgeon?’ Threads on FB.
It’s a pathetic popularity contest.
That is so hard to control. Worth trying though.

I laughed at your post mainly because it is laughable that people think they know best how you should market your business. It is innocent on their part but they should ask before promoting you.
-AJ
 
I'd almost bet that the naysayer was/is a CA and that's why they're trying to bust your nuggets.

Not to derail, but the bar to get the CA from the ISA has been lowered to the point where I have to wonder why more good "tree guys" don't just get it anyway.
 
the bar to get the CA from the ISA has been lowered to the point where I have to wonder why more good "tree guys" don't just get it anyway.
I would argue that that is why more don't get it, because it has been watered down to the point of uselessness. The CA program is a racket, and tree guys see through it. In the extremely rare case that a customer ever asks me if I'm ISA certified, I just smile and say, "well, I used to be". I can then use it as an opportunity to explain why it doesn't mean what you might think it means, and that most CA's just do paperwork, while I on the other hand actually work with trees.
 
I would argue that that is why more don't get it, because it has been watered down to the point of uselessness. The CA program is a racket, and tree guys see through it. In the extremely rare case that a customer ever asks me if I'm ISA certified, I just smile and say, "well, I used to be". I can then use it as an opportunity to explain why it doesn't mean what you might think it means, and that most CA's just do paperwork, while I on the other hand actually work with trees.
Most people these days are chasing clout, a higher paycheck, and attention. Certifications are a way for short term gratification of those goals, but it doesn't work out well in the long run. Everyone wants to make more money, or have prestige in their title, or have less to do. Most don't want to do what it takes to build that.

As business owners and arborists, I feel like our perception is warped. When hiring, a CA could be a benefit if decoupled from ego. We know the certification is supposed to help reduce the "explaining who I am" portion of life, but it doesn't test you in anything other than words.

I am extremely pro education, but I'm not pro clout chasing. I've met non certified arborists that would spank me in climbing, tree knowledge, customer skills, utility knowledge, and more. I've met plenty of panty waste CA's as well (I'm sure I was one at one point). Compared to many more tenured BCMA and RCA practitioners I'm a hack, but I know I'm better than Timmy toothless.

In the end, each person's market and drive is their own. Society is so binary, if it's not one it's the other. One thing I love about trees is they don't operate that way, and it forces arborist practitioners to view a bigger picture. Soil compaction from 30 years ago can kill a tree as much as herbicide, but the guy who doesn't care about the why won't care whether he's a CA or not.
 
I would argue that that is why more don't get it, because it has been watered down to the point of uselessness. The CA program is a racket, and tree guys see through it. In the extremely rare case that a customer ever asks me if I'm ISA certified, I just smile and say, "well, I used to be". I can then use it as an opportunity to explain why it doesn't mean what you might think it means, and that most CA's just do paperwork, while I on the other hand actually work with trees.
"most CAs just do paperwork" interesting take and I wonder where you get this statistic from because it seems like a jaded generalization. I've worked in a few large metro areas as a production climber, and most CAs I knew were also production climbers. Maybe I'm also generalizing... Of course, I've also met many "CBAs" Clip Board Arborists who've never so much as tied a bowline or cut a branch off of a tree with a handsaw.
 
It's less about the certification and more about the brain, reasoning, and forward progression of the one holding it.
It is 100%...and its not that hard or that much money to be a Certified Arborist and if you are already learning the CEUs are easy to come by. It just seems like a no-brainer for somebody making this their career. But I get some are jaded by ISA so there is that.
 
It is 100%...and its not that hard or that much money to be a Certified Arborist and if you are already learning the CEUs are easy to come by. It just seems like a no-brainer for somebody making this their career. But I get some are jaded by ISA so there is that.
If your on the front nine, it seems like a no brainer, but once you get established and have regular clients and all that, I probably wouldn't bother, and that's coming from a guy who is looking to continue to a BCMA
 
If your on the front nine, it seems like a no brainer, but once you get established and have regular clients and all that, I probably wouldn't bother, and that's coming from a guy who is looking to continue to a BCMA
It really depends on your goals. There are arborists who are attorneys, consultants, supervisors, managers, or in other adjacent industries (utility especially) where the certification can help them be more well rounded and to be the intermediary between arborists and the corporate world.

Likewise, there are folks who are looking to do tree care, boots on the ground with saws and treatments, who may not benefit from the certification because what the certification provides for them is less than the opportunity cost of paying, or the time it takes to maintain the credential.

If the intent is met with life long learning, growth, opportunity enhancement, and a general betterment of quality of life, then it makes sense. In my case, I wanted to be able to help influence decision making in my community, train other companies and arborists, collaborate with multidisciplinary technicians and experts to solve complex problems, and to be able to triage/plan better for individual trees, lots, plots, forests, and the people who interact with them. I can't do that without specific credentials signaling that gets me in the door. That's why I'm going back to school to finish my bachelor's as well (partially).

It depends on what your individual long term goals and aspirations are. I'm even having this talk with the apprentice. Because we are small, he gets a lot of say into what the end goals of his schooling are. He's less about being a production badass and more about wanting to support the people who do the work, coordinate with teams, and build people up. That's a stark contrast against hiring him to be a climber and foreman. It's not invaluable, in fact quite the opposite, but it important to recognize these changes over time.

There's no cookie cutter answer. Some people regret college, and say it was not worth the time and effort. Others have made millions and are happy. Likewise, my most successful clients are generally highschool dropouts who started companies in the 60s and 70s who could work hard and get folks to follow. Certification seems to be the same. I thought the BCMA test was written very well for its intended purpose, or for my aspirations. Many people have complained about the test, and other exams, saying they are written poorly or that they don't understand the outcome.

Lastly, credentialing of all forms is awarded at a gradient. Doctors use a term, and I'll botch it here, basically saying to work at the top end of their education. Often, the more educated arborists are the less "arborist tree work" they do, either by choice or promotion. Because of this, many of us advance past where we'd like to be. We want to do the work, care for things with our hands, and see the results. This often causes us to work below our certification, and can keep us in a different mindset that is focused on more immediate events than long term planning and thinking (which is what executives, managers, researchers, etc) get paid money for.

Much of this conversation involves our own internal perspectives of what we are doing, and balancing our internal framework with the outward projection to the world to reduce the need to explain ourselves. Sometimes certification helps, sometimes it doesn't.

A side note, when I got BCMA, I quickly realized the world looks at that very very differently. I inherently assume way more risk from projects and clients because there is no "ignorance" clause. I've proved I know the things, can learn and articulate, and can problem solve in ways that I have to now plan for daily. Something to consider depending on what you want your life design to look like.
 
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Likewise, there are folks who are looking to do tree care, boots on the ground with saws and treatments, who may not benefit from the certification because what the certification provides for them is less than the opportunity cost of paying, or the time it takes to maintain the credential.
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I agree they may not directly benefit from the letters after their name, but they will certainly benefit from the education to renew. IMHO, everybody who is making this their profession should be going that kind of education anyhow. Or any profession...I'd hope my mechanic, HVAC technician, dentist, ect are leaning more about their craft.

As a business owner, I'm willing to pay more for a CA because I think it worthwhile to tell clients a CA will be doing your work. I also (financially) support their efforts to become and stay Certified. Not everybody sees it that way - employers or clients and that's OK. Just sharing my thoughts.
 
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A side note, when I got BCMA, I quickly realized the world looks at that very very differently. I inherently assume way more risk from projects and clients because there is no "ignorance" clause. I've proved I know the things, can learn and articulate, and can problem solve in ways that I have to now plan for daily. Something to consider depending on what you want your life design to look like.
I largely agree with what you are saying, so don't take two posts disagreeing with you the wrong way. Just offering a different perspective. So, with that, here I go again ;)

Did legal council tell you that you assume more risk? "ignorance" is never an out. If you are operating outside of industry standards or outside your knowledge base I'm pretty sure you are liable either way.

Example, if I wire your house and it burns down because I didn't know that I couldn't use 14 gauge wire for your electric range...whether I am a certified electrician or hack handyman.
 
I largely agree with what you are saying, so don't take two posts disagreeing with you the wrong way. Just offering a different perspective. So, with that, here I go again ;)

Did legal council tell you that you assume more risk? "ignorance" is never an out. If you are operating outside of industry standards or outside your knowledge base I'm pretty sure you are liable either way.

Example, if I wire your house and it burns down because I didn't know that I couldn't use 14 gauge wire for your electric range...whether I am a certified electrician or hack handyman.
I love the insight. It's what forums are for. Ideas should be tested.

Operating outside of industry standards absolutely opens you up to risk. Maybe I should phrase that different. I was advised, in more lawyerly language, that it can. I think I might have done a poor job describing it.

The urban forestry and utility specialist certifications are a gatekeeper to certain positions that may require a higher level of ownership over the position. As the industry standardizes and modernizes there will be more specialization, and more pathways for professional development, especially due to the rise of PE and investment into vegetation management.

RCA is a bit more concrete example. It's not that other folks writing reports aren't held to standards, especially if their position requires it (again, titles and semantics) but it does infer a minimum professional standard within a domain. The higher up the tree you climb the harder it is to fake it.
 

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