the guy said...
- Thread starter 123Deboralee
- Start date
I am not a troll!
you are one hell of a woman lady
- Location
- BC, Canada
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If the owner is worried about the tenants safety, doesn't he have the right to remove the hazard?
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IS the tree a hazard? Or is the big deadwood in the tree a hazard?
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It has been confirmed that the tree is a hazard, as all trees are, and it was requested to be removed.
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Oh, my bad. Forgot the ISA, TCIA, ANSI rule that all trees are a hazard. Cut 'em all down, who wants one of those bloody useless things anyway? Hazards, each and every one of them!
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I have two questions.
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For which you do not want answers.
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What gives us the right to talk them into doing something they don't want to?
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A higher level of appreciation for the mitigation of risk than the homeowner posesses, for one. A little education in the benefits of retaining the tree for another. Bit of less shock to the pocketbook for the homeowner should not be discounted either.
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The second question goes with the first, now that we've talked them into pruning and tree care, who excepts liability of that tree when it fails?
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Not us if we follow BMP's. (You are aware of these, right?)
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By promoting tree care we give the client the false impression that we have removed the hazard and the tree is safe.
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Pretty sure this is where Guy lost his lunch.
Given that every tree is a hazard, you are saying that the best you can do is cut every single tree near a house down, you have no other tool in your bag.
Well, that is one small bag lakesregion, one small bag indeed.
Tom the treeman has it right, offer some educated options.
Step one being education, of course.
Northwind
If the owner is worried about the tenants safety, doesn't he have the right to remove the hazard?
[/ QUOTE ]
IS the tree a hazard? Or is the big deadwood in the tree a hazard?
[ QUOTE ]
It has been confirmed that the tree is a hazard, as all trees are, and it was requested to be removed.
[/ QUOTE ]
Oh, my bad. Forgot the ISA, TCIA, ANSI rule that all trees are a hazard. Cut 'em all down, who wants one of those bloody useless things anyway? Hazards, each and every one of them!
[ QUOTE ]
I have two questions.
[/ QUOTE ]
For which you do not want answers.
[ QUOTE ]
What gives us the right to talk them into doing something they don't want to?
[/ QUOTE ]
A higher level of appreciation for the mitigation of risk than the homeowner posesses, for one. A little education in the benefits of retaining the tree for another. Bit of less shock to the pocketbook for the homeowner should not be discounted either.
[ QUOTE ]
The second question goes with the first, now that we've talked them into pruning and tree care, who excepts liability of that tree when it fails?
[/ QUOTE ]
Not us if we follow BMP's. (You are aware of these, right?)
[ QUOTE ]
By promoting tree care we give the client the false impression that we have removed the hazard and the tree is safe.
[/ QUOTE ]
Pretty sure this is where Guy lost his lunch.
Given that every tree is a hazard, you are saying that the best you can do is cut every single tree near a house down, you have no other tool in your bag.
Well, that is one small bag lakesregion, one small bag indeed.
Tom the treeman has it right, offer some educated options.
Step one being education, of course.
Northwind
[ QUOTE ]
IS the tree a hazard? Or is the big deadwood in the tree a hazard?
It has been confirmed that the tree is a hazard, as all trees are, and it was requested to be removed.
[/ QUOTE ]
that tree, like all trees, is going to come down one day. They can either wait until it comes down on is own....or they can beat it to the punch. If they should wait and it comes down on it's own it will be a heck of a punch
IS the tree a hazard? Or is the big deadwood in the tree a hazard?
It has been confirmed that the tree is a hazard, as all trees are, and it was requested to be removed.
[/ QUOTE ]
that tree, like all trees, is going to come down one day. They can either wait until it comes down on is own....or they can beat it to the punch. If they should wait and it comes down on it's own it will be a heck of a punch
- Location
- North of Boston
lakes
What I meant by the lieing comment, is that Arbos in our industry sell the client what they want, rather than educating them on what should be doen from and Arbos point of view. I wasnt singling you out or calling you a liar, sorry if I came across as that.
123
If that tree was in our territory we would gladly do it for 5k! We own our cranes, and dont have to pay rentla fees, that makes a big difference in pricing work. You really expect us to drive to???< not really sure where your from as your bio is blank and your city contractors license is blurred out, for 5k?! Not going to happen in this life, sorry. I am not mean, cruel, or Libel (Slander is spoken, Libel is written, FYI), I am basing my opinions on your ever changing facts, and past performances here.
What I meant by the lieing comment, is that Arbos in our industry sell the client what they want, rather than educating them on what should be doen from and Arbos point of view. I wasnt singling you out or calling you a liar, sorry if I came across as that.
123
If that tree was in our territory we would gladly do it for 5k! We own our cranes, and dont have to pay rentla fees, that makes a big difference in pricing work. You really expect us to drive to???< not really sure where your from as your bio is blank and your city contractors license is blurred out, for 5k?! Not going to happen in this life, sorry. I am not mean, cruel, or Libel (Slander is spoken, Libel is written, FYI), I am basing my opinions on your ever changing facts, and past performances here.
I would imagine that there is some kind on crane access even if you had to use a crane company with a 300ft crane it may cost some money but it could be done in a day. we use 2 or 3 climbers and 3 ground dudes so you could alternate rigging between climbers and get done faster.
- Location
- BC, Canada
[ QUOTE ]
that tree, like all trees, is going to come down one day. They can either wait until it comes down on is own....or they can beat it to the punch.
[/ QUOTE ]
That's right, they're all goners. Cut them now!
They're useless ticking timebombs in the landscape, good for nothing and schemeing to kill you and yours.
F tree care, F mitigation. Give me a chainsaw and stand the F back.
Arborophobia is alive and well, it seems.
I thought it was an affliction carried by uneducated homeowners, seems to have spread to arborists with every opportunity to receive an innoculation.
Northwind
that tree, like all trees, is going to come down one day. They can either wait until it comes down on is own....or they can beat it to the punch.
[/ QUOTE ]
That's right, they're all goners. Cut them now!
They're useless ticking timebombs in the landscape, good for nothing and schemeing to kill you and yours.
F tree care, F mitigation. Give me a chainsaw and stand the F back.
Arborophobia is alive and well, it seems.
I thought it was an affliction carried by uneducated homeowners, seems to have spread to arborists with every opportunity to receive an innoculation.
Northwind
- Location
- San Diego, Ca. North county
Hey, 123, If you get it for $9000, get a crane and use some of the money to replace a fence to get a crane there. Otherwise, your climber is going to be cutting small chucks to hit a landing zone. Thats heavy wood.
Jeff
Jeff
How do you know a consultation wasn't done?
guymayor
Branched out member
- Location
- East US, Earth
[ QUOTE ]
Arborophobia is alive and well, it seems.
I thought it was an affliction carried by uneducated homeowners, seems to have spread to arborists with every opportunity to receive an innoculation
[/ QUOTE ]
I think I found an antidote, North--see page 40 of the latest Arborist News. There in a chainsaw ad is some of the most sane reasoning on this topic I have ever read.
If anyone here does not belong to ISA, please find someone who does and borrow the issue. The detective story is about climbing and I hope of some interest, but Mark Chisholm tells the crucial tree risk/client management story brilliantly.
Thanks Mark!
Arborophobia is alive and well, it seems.
I thought it was an affliction carried by uneducated homeowners, seems to have spread to arborists with every opportunity to receive an innoculation
[/ QUOTE ]
I think I found an antidote, North--see page 40 of the latest Arborist News. There in a chainsaw ad is some of the most sane reasoning on this topic I have ever read.
If anyone here does not belong to ISA, please find someone who does and borrow the issue. The detective story is about climbing and I hope of some interest, but Mark Chisholm tells the crucial tree risk/client management story brilliantly.
Thanks Mark!
- Location
- Nationwide
sometimes there's a thread...
not just any thread...
but it could be any thread...
that sums up the whole online bulletin board experience, good and bad...
and this is one of those threads.
not just any thread...
but it could be any thread...
that sums up the whole online bulletin board experience, good and bad...
and this is one of those threads.
Waldo
Participating member
- Location
- Portland, OR
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Arborophobia is alive and well, it seems.
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Northwind, Dendrophobia is the fear of trees... just trying to help there bro.
Arborophobia is alive and well, it seems.
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Northwind, Dendrophobia is the fear of trees... just trying to help there bro.
- Location
- Pfafftown, NC
I thought that I logged into Treebuzz and somehow my computer sent me to AS.com. How did this happen? Where's Jerry Springer when you need him? Hey BB just because your company owns a crane doesn't mean that you don't have to factor in the purchase price, insurance, transportation costs and operator fees when bidding a tree job. For most of us it is much cheaper to rent a crane as needed as opposed to being having the overhead.
TreeCo
Carpal tunnel level member
[ QUOTE ]
"It's in the back yard; you can't miss it". And so it was; 7' across waist high and probably 10' at roof level. He's having trouble getting tennants so he wants it out of here. He says don't worry about grinding the stump just get it down below the roof. How does a cottonwoood seed ever get this big?
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Getting back to the opening post.
IMO, this is way too much tree healthy or not, to be overhanging this residence. Should this large tree fail the odds of injury or death to the occupants is unacceptably high. As a not so great analogy I would compare it to having your child ride in a child safety seat attached to the front bumper of your vehicle....and believing safe driving training mitigates the risk involved.
"It's in the back yard; you can't miss it". And so it was; 7' across waist high and probably 10' at roof level. He's having trouble getting tennants so he wants it out of here. He says don't worry about grinding the stump just get it down below the roof. How does a cottonwoood seed ever get this big?
[/ QUOTE ]
Getting back to the opening post.
IMO, this is way too much tree healthy or not, to be overhanging this residence. Should this large tree fail the odds of injury or death to the occupants is unacceptably high. As a not so great analogy I would compare it to having your child ride in a child safety seat attached to the front bumper of your vehicle....and believing safe driving training mitigates the risk involved.
guymayor
Branched out member
- Location
- East US, Earth
[ QUOTE ]
IMO, this is way too much tree healthy or not, to be overhanging this residence. Should this large tree fail the odds of injury or death to the occupants is unacceptably high. As a not so great analogy I would compare it to having your child ride in a child safety seat attached to the front bumper of your vehicle....and believing safe driving training mitigates the risk involved.
[/ QUOTE ]
So Dan I thought you found it crazy when callers say "My tree is too big". Ironic that you are saying that same line now.
re that analogy, you can call it Dendrophobia if you want to speak Greek, or Arborphobia, or just reacting without weighing the factors, managing before assessing, cart before horsing.
How do YOU decide what risk THEY should accept? And what is the defect that you think will fail, besides the obvious dead limb issue? (based on our distance view this is so easy
) Bad vibes and gut notions come in after the data, if at all.
123 now that the pic matches the avatar i see you may be as real as any of us, but "troll" also can mean "provocative to a fault", and maybe both you and BB went there for a bit.
So no offense; thanks for posting the pics of that grand tree. Do you and your partner think it's worthwhile to bid pruning, just as a Plan P?
Then the tree may draw a tenant. As of now I agree that the landlord's neglect has turned an aesthetic and economic (cooling power) asset into a liability.
IMO, this is way too much tree healthy or not, to be overhanging this residence. Should this large tree fail the odds of injury or death to the occupants is unacceptably high. As a not so great analogy I would compare it to having your child ride in a child safety seat attached to the front bumper of your vehicle....and believing safe driving training mitigates the risk involved.
[/ QUOTE ]
So Dan I thought you found it crazy when callers say "My tree is too big". Ironic that you are saying that same line now.
re that analogy, you can call it Dendrophobia if you want to speak Greek, or Arborphobia, or just reacting without weighing the factors, managing before assessing, cart before horsing.
How do YOU decide what risk THEY should accept? And what is the defect that you think will fail, besides the obvious dead limb issue? (based on our distance view this is so easy
123 now that the pic matches the avatar i see you may be as real as any of us, but "troll" also can mean "provocative to a fault", and maybe both you and BB went there for a bit.
So no offense; thanks for posting the pics of that grand tree. Do you and your partner think it's worthwhile to bid pruning, just as a Plan P?
Then the tree may draw a tenant. As of now I agree that the landlord's neglect has turned an aesthetic and economic (cooling power) asset into a liability.
TreeCo
Carpal tunnel level member
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So Dan I thought you found it crazy when callers say "My tree is too big". Ironic that you are saying that same line now.
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Guy I do believe trees can be too large and pose unacceptable risk, like the one in this thread does. The possible negative outcome in terms of property damage and loss of human life far outweighs its' benfits. There should be a seperate type of insurance written for arborist that assure that such a tree is 'safe'. Homeowners insurance too needs some modification for trees this large over a residence.
IMO, living under this tree is like living under a huge fly swatter!
So Dan I thought you found it crazy when callers say "My tree is too big". Ironic that you are saying that same line now.
[/ QUOTE ]
Guy I do believe trees can be too large and pose unacceptable risk, like the one in this thread does. The possible negative outcome in terms of property damage and loss of human life far outweighs its' benfits. There should be a seperate type of insurance written for arborist that assure that such a tree is 'safe'. Homeowners insurance too needs some modification for trees this large over a residence.
IMO, living under this tree is like living under a huge fly swatter!
guymayor
Branched out member
- Location
- East US, Earth
"Guy I do believe trees can be too large and pose unacceptable risk"
Risk of failing...where? what part of the tree?
"The possible negative outcome in terms of property damage and loss of human life far outweighs its' benefits."
You could say that about any tree, as more than one poster on this thread already has. Do you agree with them?
"There should be a seperate type of insurance written for arborist that assure that such a tree is 'safe'. Homeowners insurance too needs some modification for trees this large over a residence."
How would such riders work; i don't follow.
"IMO, living under this tree is like living under a huge fly swatter!"
Yes its size may make us feel insignificant, but we are not flies; we are supposed to be Homo sapiens sapiens, systematially assessing facts, instead of flying from fear of size. Speaking of size, are you going strictly on "gut" reaction?
Risk of failing...where? what part of the tree?
"The possible negative outcome in terms of property damage and loss of human life far outweighs its' benefits."
You could say that about any tree, as more than one poster on this thread already has. Do you agree with them?
"There should be a seperate type of insurance written for arborist that assure that such a tree is 'safe'. Homeowners insurance too needs some modification for trees this large over a residence."
How would such riders work; i don't follow.
"IMO, living under this tree is like living under a huge fly swatter!"
Yes its size may make us feel insignificant, but we are not flies; we are supposed to be Homo sapiens sapiens, systematially assessing facts, instead of flying from fear of size. Speaking of size, are you going strictly on "gut" reaction?
