Honestly,THIS is the bottom line.
Excellent post Eric[emoji106]
Tapered Hinge: Diar(y)rhea of a thread gone wrong and left un-moderated
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Hmmmm so what do you guys say about intentional Dutchmans, mostly speaking of step in 1 side?
Daniel
Carpal tunnel level member
- Location
- Suburban Philadelphia (Wayne)
I was thinking the same thing kenny and @rico
Wondering how you fit your above statement about the taper hinge with your earlier statements about Doug Dent being your lifetime hero and his including the taper hinge in his book as an approved method which I'm about to go look up
Wondering how you fit your above statement about the taper hinge with your earlier statements about Doug Dent being your lifetime hero and his including the taper hinge in his book as an approved method which I'm about to go look up
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MikePowers321
Carpal tunnel level member
- Location
- Leeds, Ny
I haven't experimented too much with it myself, but have watched Jack (Hotsaws101) using this technique in various videos.
Daniel
Carpal tunnel level member
- Location
- Suburban Philadelphia (Wayne)
Excellent video and one of Jack's best
I love that guy
I took the thinking behind the soft Dutchman and applied it to swinging long heavy horizontal limbs with great success just another out of the Box technique which was only discovered by trying something new and different in a non critical situation
I love that guy
I took the thinking behind the soft Dutchman and applied it to swinging long heavy horizontal limbs with great success just another out of the Box technique which was only discovered by trying something new and different in a non critical situation
Lets get something straight Daniel. I don't have a problem with the tapered hinge per se, just your gawd awful, butchered version of it. Please don't conflate the 2 buddy.
Doug is One of my heroes. That doesn't change the fact that l have learned through years of actually working in the woods that the TH has a minimal effect on changing the coarse of a falling tree. Fucking up your hinge like you seem to frequently do has a far greater effect than the TH ever could. Just like most guys working in the woods, I manipulate my hinge (tapered or otherwise) to gently carve my trees into their lay all the time. Really nothing revolutionary here buddy. I also know that for 99% of tree-buzzers, a well set tag-line is gonna be a far better, more consistent, safer tool for their needs.
evo
Been here much more than a while
- Location
- My Island, WA
Yeah, what he said ^
Daniel
Carpal tunnel level member
- Location
- Suburban Philadelphia (Wayne)
@rico
Go ahead and read dent pages98 and 99
Sorry bro... once again you lose credibility...
Well actually you already lost it, so it's just a confirmation that you have zero
Go ahead and read dent pages98 and 99
Sorry bro... once again you lose credibility...
Well actually you already lost it, so it's just a confirmation that you have zero
Daniel
Carpal tunnel level member
- Location
- Suburban Philadelphia (Wayne)
I combine pull line and hinge, tapered or otherwise... no hands on the other side of the pull line... only steel
Perhaps that could explain our different viewpoints... your narrow hinges don't have enough meat to allow the taper much extra holding...
My fat hinges have enough beef to make the taper more effective
Perhaps that could explain our different viewpoints... your narrow hinges don't have enough meat to allow the taper much extra holding...
My fat hinges have enough beef to make the taper more effective
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As I stated during our last sword fight, I am not here for credibility Daniel, nor do I need it. I stand by every fucking word I have posted in this thread, as well as my work pics and vids. I do what I do, no more no less. Simple shit really, and I certainly don't need a self promoting, know it all, inter-web hack such as yourself talking about my credibility buddy. Fucking Please. Have you actually ever spent a season or 2 falling timber in the woods for a living Danny? Yea, thats what I thought!
My issue with you is a simple one Daniel. You continually post pics of what in my opinion is some seriously shitty saw work, while simultaneously promoting yourself as some sort of expert. A deadly, dangerous combo in my book! I know I am not the 1st to voice this opinion, so maybe, just maybe, there is a little truth in what I am selling. Might want to reflect on that for a moment bro?
My issue with you is a simple one Daniel. You continually post pics of what in my opinion is some seriously shitty saw work, while simultaneously promoting yourself as some sort of expert. A deadly, dangerous combo in my book! I know I am not the 1st to voice this opinion, so maybe, just maybe, there is a little truth in what I am selling. Might want to reflect on that for a moment bro?
evo
Been here much more than a while
- Location
- My Island, WA
That’s fucken priceless, this coming from a man who has showed photos of a bunch of fucked up cuts, ripped off some old folks stating he saved them thousands when he crushed a swingset, then tried talking his way out of it all.
Rico is right, felling big west coast trees the TH is not always reliable. The bigger diameter the tree the less manipulative you can be. I don’t care how ported or sharp your chain is when you have 36” or more of hinge to cut there is a point where gravity acts faster.
Not all cuts can be made from where a bucket truck can traverse a few backyards or a full size skid steer can yank shit down.
evo
Been here much more than a while
- Location
- My Island, WA
Smooches. It’s funny that I’ve been all ADD with this thread, I start typing something out then have to tend real life things. I come back to finish and you basically have made most the points I was about to make.
If I ever manage to get a break, I’m coming down your way with a empty trailer! It would be fun to do some friggin in the riggin with ya some time.
evo
Been here much more than a while
- Location
- My Island, WA
I don’t know but I’d rather ride the unicorn
I take great solace in knowing at least one person learned something here.
*useless info*
Participating member
- Location
- usa
i do cartoon/exaggerate the amount of taper to emphasize.
i have used this most in tree, but learned on ground after figuring out Dent's schematics.
>>then took upstairs for all kinds of stuff!
When Beranek and Dent show Tapered Hinge in larger than life stuff the taper is very slight by comparison across that longer range, as already has a lot of distance multiplier.
.
The shortened hinge against side lean conversely will put more stress on the lesser hinge.
>>more fiber pull from less leverage to control side lean
In shortening hinge against side lean, the tension control and the Center of gravity positions don't change
>>BUT the position of the pivot of compressed fiber changes to closer to the tension for less leverage, BUT any time change 1st class pivot like this are also giving more distance and lean to the load side as well. So more loading distance and angle controlled by less leverage.
thus 'Pivotal Change' in our language for similair compounding changes in systems and then situations, even of speach.
.
Have tried to map where the forces flow too.
Certain species, dead, frozen, diseased, cat facing etc. could keep system from taking all the produced forces without the container coming apart.
>>certain frozen, diseased, species etc. might not take the tensions as well(frozend, dead etc. less elastic), but ok with compressions (frozend,dead mite lose elasticity factorbut maintain compression strength, where dutch could come in then)
>>>>LOTS of materials don't take tensions well, compression very much more stable (if can only otherwise crumble)
>>>>wood and steel are specific examples that take tensions better than most materials
>>Just like can map load of force in rope correctly, but lesser rope might not take it.
Fair to say must know local species, temp reactions etc. and how to read tree and previous cuts that day to determine some factors, including how you are dancing with it that day!
.
in playing around in tree, clearing some waiting for groundies;
Have learned a lot with 020, hand saw on 3-5" verticals.
>>could make small faces, backcut some and pull bodyweight at different forward angles to witness the resistance of tapered and dutchmens pulled at different angle
>>sometimes not to failure, push back open and modify backcut/face etc. play again, eyes wide open
This was the small end of the scale compared to where phenomenon first reported by Dent and Beranek.
Then, in tree, once figured out differences in pull angle, wood grain etc.
>>all models worked consistently, except where unusually brittle, diseased, 'cat faces'(scrambled grain even seen in bark from wound etc.).
.
i do recommend not to use in root swell so much, where grain is shifting etc.
>>burned in both my remaining brain cells is Beranek, in poster cutting 7' diameter 150' with 090 and a cast on foot . And shows root swell stopped there, so is choice of cutting area. Chains over/under cut to prevent splitting. Standing on springboards too!
Anytime i started feeling like i was good, i'd stand in front of the poster and be humbled; and just go out to do my best! When training guys to climb, they'd start thinking they had and were it all. Stand them in front of poster shut all that sheit up!
.
Somehow i just always thought he knew what he was talking about!
Ne'er count out a man that done dangerous work his whole life,
there is a reason that ornery ol'cuss is still alive!!
i have used this most in tree, but learned on ground after figuring out Dent's schematics.
>>then took upstairs for all kinds of stuff!
When Beranek and Dent show Tapered Hinge in larger than life stuff the taper is very slight by comparison across that longer range, as already has a lot of distance multiplier.
.
The shortened hinge against side lean conversely will put more stress on the lesser hinge.
>>more fiber pull from less leverage to control side lean
In shortening hinge against side lean, the tension control and the Center of gravity positions don't change
>>BUT the position of the pivot of compressed fiber changes to closer to the tension for less leverage, BUT any time change 1st class pivot like this are also giving more distance and lean to the load side as well. So more loading distance and angle controlled by less leverage.
thus 'Pivotal Change' in our language for similair compounding changes in systems and then situations, even of speach.
.
Have tried to map where the forces flow too.
Certain species, dead, frozen, diseased, cat facing etc. could keep system from taking all the produced forces without the container coming apart.
>>certain frozen, diseased, species etc. might not take the tensions as well(frozend, dead etc. less elastic), but ok with compressions (frozend,dead mite lose elasticity factorbut maintain compression strength, where dutch could come in then)
>>>>LOTS of materials don't take tensions well, compression very much more stable (if can only otherwise crumble)
>>>>wood and steel are specific examples that take tensions better than most materials
>>Just like can map load of force in rope correctly, but lesser rope might not take it.
Fair to say must know local species, temp reactions etc. and how to read tree and previous cuts that day to determine some factors, including how you are dancing with it that day!
.
in playing around in tree, clearing some waiting for groundies;
Have learned a lot with 020, hand saw on 3-5" verticals.
>>could make small faces, backcut some and pull bodyweight at different forward angles to witness the resistance of tapered and dutchmens pulled at different angle
>>sometimes not to failure, push back open and modify backcut/face etc. play again, eyes wide open
This was the small end of the scale compared to where phenomenon first reported by Dent and Beranek.
Then, in tree, once figured out differences in pull angle, wood grain etc.
>>all models worked consistently, except where unusually brittle, diseased, 'cat faces'(scrambled grain even seen in bark from wound etc.).
.
i do recommend not to use in root swell so much, where grain is shifting etc.
>>burned in both my remaining brain cells is Beranek, in poster cutting 7' diameter 150' with 090 and a cast on foot . And shows root swell stopped there, so is choice of cutting area. Chains over/under cut to prevent splitting. Standing on springboards too!
Anytime i started feeling like i was good, i'd stand in front of the poster and be humbled; and just go out to do my best! When training guys to climb, they'd start thinking they had and were it all. Stand them in front of poster shut all that sheit up!
.
Somehow i just always thought he knew what he was talking about!
Ne'er count out a man that done dangerous work his whole life,
there is a reason that ornery ol'cuss is still alive!!
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