SRT Trunk Tie Off/Safety Concerns

Re: SRT the Flaw?

Great post Zach, some excellent points well made.

Thanks for all the contributions so far everyone, food for thought, really good to hear all your thoughts on this issue. Especially from the guys who've been using SRT for working the tree with the base tie off.

I'm interested to hear from people who've been using SRT for working the tree with a top anchor point. Probably the same people right.

How are you setting this up? and how is the retreival of the rope working?


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Re: SRT the Flaw?

If im rigging, it means i have a block somewhere high in the tree. This means at the end of the climb im going back up to get it. Therefore i do not need a trunk tie for rope retrievability. Trunk tie is just one Option out of many.
 
Re: SRT the Flaw?

[ QUOTE ]
This post should be titled trunk tie the flaw as SRT does not mean trunk tie

[/ QUOTE ]

a little bit caustic at times, but everyone stayed pretty cool, so this is a good thread
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good point about heading back to get a block, but the biggest concern for some people is cutting their rope with a silky, don't know about you guys, but I don't do much removing with a silky
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it is awareness, plain and simple, if you are doing a pruning job with a silky, just be aware, lanyard in if you are close to your down-rope ( you should be doing it all the time, but we all know sometimes it isn't feasible due to position)

just be smart.
I guess, I would fall into the "arm-chair" arbo category, but that's okay, I make a pretty decent living off it and like to work smarter, not harder, I play hard enough as it is
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Re: SRT the Flaw?

I am actually suprised how little my base tie gets in the way. I believe the ability to keep ropes intangled and in order is the biggest difference between a new climber and an experienced climber. I rember getting completely tangled and wrapped up in my climbing line. That doesny happen so much any more. One danger that is mediated by srt is the danger of 75 feet of rope tangled up on the ground waiting to be shoved im the chipper. Zack, advancimg your system Srt is just as sple and efficient as ddrt. Never been an issue for me
 
Re: SRT the Flaw?

Ropearmour, needs to make an RC version that winches itself up the throw line up to the cinched TIP for work, and then lowers itself down for retrieval when done.
 
Re: SRT the Flaw?

[ QUOTE ]


People are forsaking their safety for the ability to climb the line 1:1 instead of 2:1.

There is no way any serious and experienced climber is gonna come on this thread an tell me that SRT work positioning using a basal tie off is safer than regular DbRT?

Progress in treeclimbing is only good if it makes the work safer, this is the obvious flaw in the SRT work positioning system (with the basal tie off).



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That is one of the most asenine things I have heard. No one is forsaking any part of their safety, as long as they understand what they are doing. The exact same thing can be said for drt.

And for the second quote, no one can come on here and tell me that drt is safer than srt, its climbing a f^@%#& tree for God's sake people, its dangerous by nature! It comes down to understanding your system, your abilities, and your environment. If you make every move in a tree with those three aspects in mind, you should have a long and successful career.

But lets please stop attacking systems, its kinda like the old saying; "guns dont kill people, people kill people". Same thing applies to tree climbing, systems and ropes and gear doesnt kill climbers, climbers doing stupid shite and not comprehending how an action affects the tree or the gear is what kills climbers.
 
Re: SRT the Flaw?

Where in the 'Manual of SRT Tree Climbing'...author unknown...does it say that trunk ties are the only solution?

IF A climber feels that their safety is compromised, choose another solution.

I fear that the issue of trunk anchors is going to polarize climbers in the way that one handed chainsaw use has. NOW WAIT...don't use this as a time to start up THAT discussion! Hahahaah!
 
Re: SRT the Flaw?

PNW climbers are often in much taller trees than the rest of the climbers in the U.S. and Canada, I can see how having an SRT anchor far below and out of sight would undermine confidence and decrease flexibility of the system (tough to communicate effectively to the ground to make adjustments). If you're going to work SRT in a tall conifer it makes a lot of sense to set a new SRT anchor up in the crown, two SRT rope settings, one to get in and out of the tree, the other to get around in the crown.
-AJ
 
Re: SRT the Flaw?

Hey Tom,
Since you have been using SRT ascent and work positioning for a bit of time, I have a question for you. Do you feel that there is an ergonomic difference in SRT vs Traditional system. My question is pertaining to MSD differences between the two over a career timeline. And do you think that someone that starts and finishes their career on SRT will see different MSD issues than someone that starts Traditional and goes SRT. I've been using both, and like you, I have been at it for a while. Just thinkin' a thought and wunderin'
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Re: SRT the Flaw?

Bruce,

This is not scientific, just based on spending the first half of my climbing career on trad and the second half on SRT I feel that my second half will be easier and longer.

There may be different MSDs to look at of course. But I firmly believe that a climber using SRT from the outset will have a longer and healthier career...and retirement too. The use of rope climbing tools integrated with proper ergonomics should reduce many repetitive motion injuries. Footlocking v. using any of the rope walking type ascents is much better for all of the joints.

Many years ago I rattled on about how I felt that SRT was more efficient. Again...just from how my body felt at the end of an ascent, day of working and a week of work. Now, Dr. John Ball has confirmed this using scientific testing tools.

Another validation of my thinking has come from taking people climbing using trad/DdRT and then SRT techniques. They ALL have told me that they could climb easier with SRT. Not just the struggle with the systems, they have all told me that they worked less using SRT.
 
Re: SRT the Flaw?

Lanyard in for good position and safety, prevents a swing.
Once your on the lanyard a ground rescue is not possible unless your conscious and can assist in your own rescue by disconnecting the lanyard. A base tie off adds the option of groundie getting you to the ground. Ultimately you are responsible for yourself.
 
Re: SRT the Flaw?

Just saying "don't hire dumb ground guys" is dangerous thinking. We all know Murphy's law. No matter how well we train and lead, stuff does happen. Like Grover said, it's why we wear PPE and utilize other safety precautions. Not because these things happen all the time, but when they do, it could be a life changing/taking experience.
 
Re: SRT the Flaw?

Everything we do in tree work has some element of risk. We're not sitting in a cubicle all day we're climbing trees and using chainsaws. A base anchor does add another element of risk but it does not mean it is unsafe. It is just something else we need to be aware of. The advantages of SRT climbing clearly out weigh the disadvantages in my opinion. I did some practical and realistic tree pruning on a large pin oak, climbing SRT, on my rope wrench using a base anchor. It went great.
 
Re: SRT the Flaw?

There are times when srt and yes basil tie offs are safer. I've had numerous times working with several different individuals that that have asked me to do a perticular tree because srt made it safer. The ability to change the way you load the tree and your "tip" is able to make storm damaged trees and leaning trees easier to access and inherently safer.

I've been in situations and in trees where my rope was not long enough to reach the ground in the case of an emergency. At these points I can lanyard in and ask for more rope to be allowed into the system. Thus allowing me to able to reach the ground if something was to go wrong. In a ddrt system if your in a tree greater than 100' and the longest rope you have is 200' you can't make it to the ground with out retying in. That is a safety concern. Therefore less safe. There are times and situations where each system could be considered a better choice and safer. Knowing how to and when to use a particular climbing or tie in technique is all part of being a safer and more proficient climber.

It's been said here before but I'll repeat it. Safety is up to the "user" or climber. It is no safer or less safe then you make it. Knowing when not to use a particular technique or system is just as important as knowing when to use one.

Good discussion. Having been climbing srt for over 2 years now I've learned when it's safe and when it's not safe to use a basil tie off. And there are both situations.
 
Re: SRT the Flaw?

I don't think the word "flaw" is necessary. Cautionary measures may be a better way to say it. There are certainly way too many advantages to SRT.

Yesterday I was in a Cottonwood and I needed to get out pretty far to the tips. With DDRT I would have balked and did less thorough work simply because I wouldn't have the advantage to do so.

SRT has me convinced I don't need to buy a bucket truck.
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Re: SRT the Flaw?

You gotta go up and/or out and then down thru a crotch for a "re direct"? When you could simply toss a crotch with a second climbing line from where you are, rapel off of that crotch, double balance off it, then dispose of it at will.

Sheeple...buy a singing rope wrench.
 
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