Should 80' oaks be cut down?

[ontheropes]

Dear Jessica.
while I applaud your attempt to educate yourselves before making a decision re your trees, I think its important to consider this is the internet and while I'm sure the guys here mean well, they are having a little fun at your expense. Consider this, if you had a dog or a member of your family looked poorly would you go online for a diagnosis, I would hope not. Its not for me to say if your tree is safe or not, however it clearly is a real concern for you and that is what matters. I personally and professionally too for that matter, could not recommend you take seriously a quote resulting from a couple of photographs. It looks like a nice neighborhood there are probably good local tree care firms that have made respectable reputations servicing clients such as yourselves. Invest a little time in looking for them and consider perhaps your own professions and apply some business sense to what you are told. For example an educated tree care company will not bombard you with a personal tree agenda as they would not bombard you with there religious beliefs. Its unprofessional. Trees and tree care are the resource that feed the industry, if they are removed the resource is no more. That is a quote that will no doubt be sold on as an original in some presentation in the near future. ,there you go, agendas we all have them, it just that some are just a little more honest than others. Good luck.
Ben Fuest
UK

Internet? She has asked legitimate questions with concern and given honest and sincere advice and direction. They pointed her in the right direction to follow and gave pointers on what to look for. Not sure why you used that analogy. This site is here to help all. Maybe it's just me.

 

[TreeLogic]

frash, are you drinking and posting again?

I have to agree with ontheropes above. Most have tried to help and have given good advice. There are some jokes in this thread, but for the most part, I don't think it has been at the expense of Jessica. She hasn't responded in a bit so maybe she's calling arborists, which is the advice we gave.

Jessica, as arborists, we've all been pulled in the middle of husband/wife debates over trees. You might want to leave that part out when you get estimates, or maybe don't reveal it until the end of the conversation. I hope you keep us updated with the results.

 

[Pelorus]

My Dear Jessica,

Please review your homeowner's insurance policy. It would be useful to learn how many nights in a motel will be covered while your home is being rebuilt, after the structural engineer completes his report.
The continued existence of your trees is the tree preservationist's overriding concern; not your family, or your home. How many here wanted to see photos of the house? Nope, it's all about the trees.
Kinda brings to mind the ole "good woman wanted" advertisement, wherein the lady is asked to forward a photo of the boat and motor.....

Kind regards,
Dave the Removalist

 

[Pelorus]

My Dear Jessica.....

 

[guymayor]

What a whacky thread; OP left long ago, but the beat goes on. Turnabout is fair play?: "Short-term profit from the removal of trees is the tree removalists' overriding concern; not your assets, or your home, or your community. So they bombard you with images and words designed to strike fear into your heart, and recruit you into their religion of arborphobia."

The last leaning oak I pruned in Ohio was that shingle oak in Cincinnati, after harvesting 37# of conks from the base. The tree's doing very well thanks and will be in the KAA presentation, 15 days from now:

Regenerating Hollow Trees for Life: Using International Pruning Standards:
Hollowing benefits trees naturally, by recycling waste products, losing weight, and gaining flexibility--internal decay is their friend! See how easy and affordable it is to sell and perform tree regeneration, using German, British, Chinese, and US Standards. As trees respond with regeneration, tree owners and arborists learn to work with, and trust, the tree.

Tree Inspection and Diagnosis using the ANSI Standard:
The new ANSI A300 Part 8 Standard guides your inspection of the trunk, flare and roots--the nitty-gritty of diagnosis and assessment. After gaining information from its lower parts, you can successfully manage the whole tree.

 

[JeffGu]

I've assessed this tree. Inspecting the roots was easier than I thought it would be. I've decided that with some red iron and concrete, a few good carpenters and some vinyl siding, it can be saved and won't lean any further.




Ignore those slash and burn, hack and chop, ham sandwich arborists. We can save this tree! We'll dump some dirt on that root ball and the tree will be leafing out in spring, growing new branches through the living room and kitchen, and providing habitat for possums and bears in no time!

 

[treevet]

Lots of blathering here. Bottom line is how the tree owner perceives the risk or threat. So what can Guy or anyone do to give complete loss of worry? Absolutely NOTHING. Large trees around targets come with inherent risk and different degrees of worry partly depending on the tree owner/manger's make up or perception or personality.

I don't see Guy as knowing ANYthing more than the next person in regards to risk. Is he the voodoo man? I think not. There are so many variables and unseen circumstances possible the number is boggling.

So someone will come by with furrowed brow...hem and haw...take numerous measurements while emitting an occasional "mmmmm....I see". Possibly a sprout or twig will be removed from the terminal growth with an air of bravado. A report will be submitted (with complete disclaimer of any liability) and a hand will be extended with "pay up" tatooed in the palm .

 

[guymayor]

Bottom line is how the tree owner perceives the risk or threat, i agree. That perception is aided by information about 1. the standing tree and 2. mitigation options.

If an assessor does not inspect the tree carefully per the ZTV and the ANSI A300, or forgot Shigo's lessons about CODIT, or is unfamiliar with tree response to pruning and tree-fungus interactions, they lack the info needed to competently advise the owner.

I agree with benfeust. Tree owners of leaning trees are better off calling an arbvorist to prune the tree, rather than a risk assessor to scratch her head, make generalized CYA recommendations, and take the money. A TRAQ risk entrepreneur in SC got $800. for a 1-page report with no data, no concrete information. Opinions were based on a careful reading of chicken bones and tea leaves, and delivered with witch-doctor intimidation.

Trees are good. Trees need care. Arborists care for trees. Too many assessors judge trees via voodoo.

vet, as always I'd be glad to meet you at the Belmont tree, to bask in your brilliance as you tell me how you'd have done it better!

 

[benfuest]

I agree with benfeust. Tree owners of leaning trees are better off calling an arbvorist to prune the tree, rather than a risk assessor to scratch her head, make generalized CYA recommendations, and take the money.

Apart from not making any sense, this is not remotely what I said in my post, I made no such recommendation to prune.

 

[bonner1040]

$725!

 

[guymayor]

$724 to prune, and retain the assets!

Invest a little time to contact good local professional arborists, as ben said.

Whenever humans selectively clear out trees, they are forcing the remaining trees to sprawl to the light. Humans are obligated to selectively (and if they are smart, proactively) prune those trees, to mitigate the human-caused tree imbalance, and the resulting concern. That's a constant obligation that tree owners should be made aware of, before fearmongering with the squashed house pics.

Seriously if Jessica is still around, she could probably get a LOT of advice in person in November, if Expo attendees knew where the trees were. Maybe she might want to host a rec climb!

Here's a case of a leaning tree that had 9 strikes assessed against it, but is still around.

 

[Jeff]

Seriously if Jessica is still around, she could probably get a LOT of advice in person in November, if Expo attendees knew where the trees were.

Ok, so we'll pick a time during the Expo to all meet at her house and give her a Risk Assessment / Tree Health Appraisal. Someone call Guiness, because this will be the first ever Tree Appraisal by 1,000+ Certified Arborists simultaneously. That way, she'll have at least 700 different opinions on what to do!

 

[JeffGu]

Hmm... late 50's single story ranch style house, 3-1/2 in 12 pitch roof... 2x4 walls, 2x6 rafters... then there's those 2 really bigass oak trees leaning over it that weigh how many tons each?
I'm thinking she will weigh the odds, consider the value of having that many oak trees spaced that closely in the back yard, that close to the house, the real possibility that neither of them actually needs to fall over because if they drop one hefty sized limb it might be enough to flatten the old estate manor to the ground... and she'll call up Bonner and tell him to grab his trolley cart and a bigass chainsaw and come see her.

Just a guess. Nothing to do at all with whether the trees are going to fall over or not. I'm thinking that if she stands on that deck and looks up on a windy day, and those babies sway a little, or so much as creak... it will be a done deal.

 

[frashdog]

Did any one else notice how highly valuable those large mature oak logs looked from those pictures!?

 

[Daniel]

Notice you are using "INTERNATIONAL" standards Guy.. HA HA.. the american standards are well behind eh?
ps.. just found your hat in a box. thought my associate had mailed it..

 

[deevo]

I'm with Pelorus, your house will never be the same after a tree goes through it! These people got lucky the other morning the Maple slowed it down a little and re directed it also, but still smashed the corner of their house and destroyed the deck etc..... 52" dbh oak! We are removing the remaining standing 2 trunks next week.

 

[treevet]

Consider this...were I the homeowner/treeowner ...would I want a guy that was say 60 plus years old and had spent most of his career in an office churning out literature and rarely if ever removed a tree let alone been summoned to a site where a tree had fallen after the fact (on a building or a car or a person... etc) to take care of it and was able to file the tree failure in his memory banks (or document it) for future consideration ...and...

also shows up, a 60 year plus old craggy veteran of nothing but (real) tree service (picture the guy in "Jaws") his whole life...who had also responsibly educated his self on CODIT, Risk Eval., and diseases specific to his area etc., and was familiar with local soil, drainage, prevailing wind patterns, what deadwood on the windward (as opposed to the leeward) side of a leaning tree can indicate to the condition of trees' roots, etc. etc. (yeah someone like ME)....

Just who would you want to listen to? A book/office/conjecture guy...or a real life tree failure expert guy? Not specifically speaking of the 2 "guys" on this thread...but rather types that exist in our world.

 

[treevet]

I'm with Pelorus, your house will never be the same after a tree goes through it! These people got lucky the other morning the Maple slowed it down a little and re directed it also, but still smashed the corner of their house and destroyed the deck etc..... 52" dbh oak! We are removing the remaining standing 2 trunks next week.

Likely ALL those failures could have been avoided with inspection by the "right" Arborist thru mitigation or eradication.

 

[deevo]

Yep


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[easyphloem]

Consider this...were I the homeowner/treeowner ...would I want a guy that was say 60 plus years old and had spent most of his career in an office churning out literature and rarely if ever removed a tree let alone been summoned to a site where a tree had fallen after the fact (on a building or a car or a person... etc) to take care of it and was able to file the tree failure in his memory banks (or document it) for future consideration ...and...

also shows up, a 60 year plus old craggy veteran of nothing but (real) tree service (picture the guy in "Jaws") his whole life...who had also responsibly educated his self on CODIT, Risk Eval., and diseases specific to his area etc., and was familiar with local soil, drainage, prevailing wind patterns, what deadwood on the windward (as opposed to the leeward) side of a leaning tree can indicate to the condition of trees' roots, etc. etc. (yeah someone like ME)....

Just who would you want to listen to? A book/office/conjecture guy...or a real life tree failure expert guy? Not specifically speaking of the 2 "guys" on this thread...but rather types that exist in our world.

I'd probably listen to the one who didn't seem like an A-hole. That would put you out of the running.

SZ