Retrievable doubled rope redirect

[KentuckySawyer]

I like you're setup too, Murph. Namely that when retrieving, the redirect isn't free falling at you. The equipment involved doesn't seem quite as bulky to climb with as the FS in Mahk's method. What sized halyard shackle are you using? I'd like to experiment with your idea, but I use 11mm rope and might have to tweak the removal idea.

 

[Murph]

That is a nice feature to it. I am using a 3/16 captive bar halyard shackle. I use 11mm quite a bit as well but have never taken the time to set it up for the narrower diameter. Shouldn't be too difficult. You just need to have something (tape, retrieval ball) that is just big enough to fit through the fixe but not through the shackle. Can be trickey as the tolerances are very tight but with trial and error you'll find something that works.

 

[tophopper]

Well a very creative idea Murph, I think its WAY over engineered. Too much going on there.

My thought is, if you need the tail of your line to make any redirect work, may as well just tie in with the tail, since you hauled it up anyway.

 

[KentuckySawyer]

[ QUOTE ]

My thought is, if you need the tail of your line to make any redirect work, may as well just tie in with the tail, since you hauled it up anyway.

[/ QUOTE ]

But then your bridge is cluttered with two hitches. And you have to work those two hitches. A redirect seems to keep everything simpler at the saddle.

 

[tophopper]

Id rather deal with 2 hitches vs. installing this nighmare.

 

[Murph]

I suppose that's personal preference. I'm familiar with it and so don't find it intimidating in the slightest, nor has it ever caused me problems. Having said that I almost never need a retrievable redirect anyways, just a removable one in which case it's the same setup without the shackle and rope tail.

Personally I'd rather take the extra time when nothing else is going on to rig this setup than the alternative which is having extra clutter, running two hitches and less mobility while running a saw and organizing the work rigging as well.

That is of course when the situation permits and necessitates the use of a redirect...I'm certainly not above a blakes hitch with the tail of my rope.

 

[TLHamel]

The idea of clutter at the bridge is a relative term. I first thought the Hitchclimber was too bulky, too much clutter... ppbbbbssshshhhssh! I know a few older climbers who thought a climbing line was too much clutter when they were first introduced to it! Sawyer, you have said "low tech is good". Double crotching or re-tying involves less equipment and also avoids increasing load on the redirect point. Ya'll can give a hard time to someone who fiddles with prusiks, etc, etc. These redirect ideas are interesting and creative, no doubt... but very far from simple, functional, or appropriate.

Hey, I don't want to start a fight. We need to constantly innovate. I just don't think we're seeing the forest for the trees with this whole redirect thing.

Peace, everyone. Here's a great song... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SQF8ep-OJLs

 

[Murph]

[ QUOTE ]
Does anyone have pictures or illustrations for a retrievable doubled rope redirect?

[/ QUOTE ]

I think this thread is derailing a bit. Tom originally wanted to see what anyone had come up with or was using. I don't think the idea here is to justify the merits of each setup (I hardly ever use mine). If you use a technique once in your entire career and it makes that particular instance easier for you I think it's worth knowing.

 

[Rupe]

Here's an old picture of another set up to add to the list.

I don't think I ever used it except for testing it works ok, but like murph's system (which is genius!) its quite a complicated set up with rope everywhere.

More recently I've been using the M technique with much greater results. The new hitchclimber pulley makes set up much easier than before and by using a swivel on my bridge I can work on both "sides" of the M without twisting the set up.

Anyway, in the pic the red XTC is an old split tail not a climbing line. The tail of the climbing line, or throwline, or any old bit of rope, attaches to the gold pulley (dog clip for illustration only) via any meythod you like.

To retrieve, just pull the prussic off the end of the split tail.

 

[KentuckySawyer]

[ QUOTE ]
These redirect ideas are interesting and creative, no doubt... but very far from simple, functional, or appropriate.


[/ QUOTE ]

There aren't many times that I'll use a redirect or double tie in with my tail rope. But occasionally I will do one or the other. Double tying with my tail rope is certainly low tech. Its good to be able to use what you have at your immediate disposal to accomplish a task. Like safely getting out there to reach that piece of dead over a customers house.

I probably redirect more often than I double tie though. Certainly which technique I use depends on my objective/route in the tree. Right now all I've used are natural redirects or a sling/double pulley girth hitched. I know how to retrieve a natural redirect without climbing back through the fork (or cutting the limb off), but until now I've never considered an artificial retrievable redirect.

In the right instance a retrievable redirect could certainly be functional and appropriate. This discussion is our opportunity to make that technique simple as well. I've got an idea I started on last night that seems pretty sweet, using not much more than a single sling, biner, and double pulley. Hopefully with the added benefit of being able to install the redirect remotely.

Time to get down to business. "You know what time it is when I'm down to my socks.... thats why they call them business socks."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WGOohBytKTU

 

[TLHamel]

Haha! Good one!

 

[treebing]

who cares about functional, fast, or appropriate. these are fun!

 

[KentuckySawyer]

As a variation of the retrievable redirect idea that Mark posted involving essentially a ring FS, I thought to put a "ring" onto a short prussic. Nice thing about this setup, its much more compact and it slides easily so you could tighten the redirect up to the limb. By adding the snap, it can be adjusted by simply pulling the tail rope. Remotely installed and remotely retrievable.

Heres the gizmo...

 

[KentuckySawyer]

The setup in the tree...

Line on right (red arrow) is the main tie in.

Line on left (yellow arrow) is the tail rope thats been tossed over the desired redirect point.

 

[KentuckySawyer]

Just like Mark's you feed one bight through the "ring" and another bight through the first.

Then capture the tail rope in the snap to tend the klemheist.

 

[KentuckySawyer]

Clip the double sheave pulley...

 

[KentuckySawyer]

And pull the tail rope until the pulley is in place.

I tried this in our shop tree under slightly more "realistic" conditions. You need a lot of slack in your climbing rope to be able to pull the klemheist into place.

 

[KentuckySawyer]

Pull the bights out and the pulley slides down to you...

 

[KentuckySawyer]

Flip the klemheist over the limb and you're off...

It definitely eats up more rope than Mark's, but it allows you to redirect as far away as you can through a johnny ball. A ground worker could set one using a different rope. I don't know why, but they could.

 

[climberX]

Yes this can be done I've seen it done. I am still trying to figure out the best way to do so efficiently there are a couple of ways to accomplish this but it is going to take some practice. I will try to get some pics posted of what I'm working on.