Puzzled about back ups
- Thread starter frans
- Start date
- Location
- Asheville,NC
Yo AA(Gary?), you sent PM's about me to others before I even posted in your threads.....so I call troll. Truth be known I think you have a hidden agenda. Maybe it's rants on religion that really set me off. Look, I have jugged miles of fixed lines, the only time I was scared of a rope breaking was jugging to Mammoth terraces on El Cap. Ropes were very old with over hands tied in several places due to rock fall damage. I have never heard of a static line breaking under body weight. In tree work, I think a second line is pointless in SRT mode, you have to trust your gear, if not, retire and buy a new one. Maybe I will pray next time I set sail up a single rope....just in case. Heres my balloon back up....
Attachments
Mangoes
Participating member
- Location
- Greater Toronto Area
http://www.irata.org/
Pretty sure IRATA mandates a 2 line system. (to be my own devil's advocate as Ontario has been wrestling with the possibility of a 2 line system being legislated, and my opinionated Dutch blood lines have been .... ahem ... opposed) And they are becoming regarded as some of the world's most professional at height workers.
Pretty sure IRATA mandates a 2 line system. (to be my own devil's advocate as Ontario has been wrestling with the possibility of a 2 line system being legislated, and my opinionated Dutch blood lines have been .... ahem ... opposed) And they are becoming regarded as some of the world's most professional at height workers.
- Location
- Northern California
Have some of you exprienced the fiasco at the tree climbing competition and the hassles with the backup tie in for the speed climbs? What a joke this procedure is when you realize that in the aerial rescue and the master's climb it is not made mandatory! Realistic my rear end. About as far from reality as you can get. Safety yes, practical, not so. Yes in the future we may be required to cover our self's when climbing on SRT. You should always in my opinion back up the clip on cams. The cam opening's sure do look like they could get either stuck open or jammed with debris. Even on my friction hitch with the DLT I often use a back up microasender for my own piece of mind to prevent any slippage. (see Attachment)
I've often wondered if this would catch me if I came to the end of my rope and I didn't have a stopper knot? I actually developed this to shorten my split tail when I got up into the tree and to also give me that piece of mind knowing their will be know slippage.
To come down on this system it will require you to release the tension on the microasender cam and slid it down on top of the friction hich. When you let go the microasender stops you cold and the friction hitch is the back-up.
I've often wondered if this would catch me if I came to the end of my rope and I didn't have a stopper knot? I actually developed this to shorten my split tail when I got up into the tree and to also give me that piece of mind knowing their will be know slippage.
To come down on this system it will require you to release the tension on the microasender cam and slid it down on top of the friction hich. When you let go the microasender stops you cold and the friction hitch is the back-up.
Attachments
- Location
- Haddonfield, nj
i have felt the that arboraddict is talking about but i dont think a second line would sooth it, i think it is just my mis trust for the ascenders as a whole, i back up my ascenders with at least one vt knot tied in, and thats with three different ascending devices intact, i use the treefrog method of ascending which involves a chest ascender, a pantin and a hand ascender, the chest ascender is made to be a back up for the hand ascender if im not mistaken, but i still tie a vt knot above the hand ascender and secure it via carabiner, its the only thing that makes me feel safe on the longer ascents
- Location
- Northern California
- Location
- Asheville, NC USA
umm... that definitely won't work.
- Location
- Retired in Minneapolis
Will too...figure it out...there are pieces left out of the pic for clarity. 
- Location
- Asheville, NC USA
What?... You mean that that dualcender (that has the Dbln prussik) is above another double ascender?
- Location
- Asheville, NC USA
Careful... that Blakes doesn't have the proper figure 8 backup on the tail...
...just givin' ya hell.
...just givin' ya hell.
- Location
- Canon City ,CO
Line fails? hmm... Perhaps you should also install a 2nd tree next to the target tree for that second line-just in case.. Why, pray tell, would my inspected, properly cared for, 9,900 lb tensile SRT access line fail? I am sometimes concerned about the tree failing while I ascend but I have no logical reason to be concerned about the rope failing.
Quiz of the day: What did Bugs Bunny say when he met ArborAddict?
Quiz of the day: What did Bugs Bunny say when he met ArborAddict?
Have you never heard of any equipment failure in arboriculture? Knots? biner gates? ascender cams? No?
Then I suspect you are a part-timer? no?
Two separate ropes is what I use for my SRT ascent, I am safer with my ascent than you are with your single rope. Because if my primary line fails I will be saved by my back up line. Its a fairly simple concept to grasp, if you do not wish to climb safer then so be it. But dont come running to me crying when your single SRT line fails and you come tumbling down through the canopy.
You all know I am right, why do you continue to be obtuse in the face of scientific fact, admit it! two ropes are undoubtably safer, give me one serious scientific reason why two ropes are not safer!
Ask the IRATA people why they use two ropes - its because of the potential for equipment/rope/anchor point failure.
You are slaves to the dollar, you compromise your own safety for the sake of a few extra minutes setting up a back up line.
Safety is my concern, chasing the extra dollar is yours, if you price a job well, then you have no reason to rush. My approach is professional, your approach is childish.
Thank you
Gary
Amen
Then I suspect you are a part-timer? no?
Two separate ropes is what I use for my SRT ascent, I am safer with my ascent than you are with your single rope. Because if my primary line fails I will be saved by my back up line. Its a fairly simple concept to grasp, if you do not wish to climb safer then so be it. But dont come running to me crying when your single SRT line fails and you come tumbling down through the canopy.
You all know I am right, why do you continue to be obtuse in the face of scientific fact, admit it! two ropes are undoubtably safer, give me one serious scientific reason why two ropes are not safer!
Ask the IRATA people why they use two ropes - its because of the potential for equipment/rope/anchor point failure.
You are slaves to the dollar, you compromise your own safety for the sake of a few extra minutes setting up a back up line.
Safety is my concern, chasing the extra dollar is yours, if you price a job well, then you have no reason to rush. My approach is professional, your approach is childish.
Thank you
Gary
Amen
- Location
- Louisville, KY
[ QUOTE ]
When I climb up into a tree using a double line I also use a back-up for the dualcender. (see attachment)
[/ QUOTE ]
That's pretty slick, Sohner.
When I climb up into a tree using a double line I also use a back-up for the dualcender. (see attachment)
[/ QUOTE ]
That's pretty slick, Sohner.
- Location
- Retired in Minneapolis
Gary,
Lighten up.
I don't think that anyone said that using two ropes isn't safer. Three would be even safer. Two trees with two redunancies would be even safer. At some time we're going to stop and say, "If I need this level of safety and backups then maybe I shouldn't be climbing trees in the first place."
Would you post some pictures of your setup? Seeing how you attach your system and manage the ropss would help a lot.
IRATA/SPRAT guidelines require two ropes for completely different reasons.
There are many common concepts in all rope access. There are good reasons for looking at how other professions use rope access. Adapting and sometimes adopting those concepts for arbo work makes treework just a bit safer.
Lighten up.
I don't think that anyone said that using two ropes isn't safer. Three would be even safer. Two trees with two redunancies would be even safer. At some time we're going to stop and say, "If I need this level of safety and backups then maybe I shouldn't be climbing trees in the first place."
Would you post some pictures of your setup? Seeing how you attach your system and manage the ropss would help a lot.
IRATA/SPRAT guidelines require two ropes for completely different reasons.
There are many common concepts in all rope access. There are good reasons for looking at how other professions use rope access. Adapting and sometimes adopting those concepts for arbo work makes treework just a bit safer.
- Location
- Phoenix Arizona
Re: Puzzled about back ups *DELETED*
Post deleted by arbor101
Post deleted by arbor101
Mangoes
Participating member
- Location
- Greater Toronto Area
Civil dialogue of different opinion deteriorates with personal attacks.
[ QUOTE ]
At some time we're going to stop and say, "If I need this level of safety and backups then maybe I shouldn't be climbing trees in the first place."
[/ QUOTE ]
I find it interesting then, that you would stop short at this moment in time of using two ropes for SRT - one primary line, one backup line. Why specifically stop at this point? Your quote is like something Don Blair would have said? As much as I respect Blair, it is me who is control of my safety, not Don Blair.
What exactly is it that is stopping you from using a back up rope during SRT? time/money? Do you think we will still be using SRT on one line/no back up line in 100 years time? They'll look back at us like we do the guys from decades ago working without hardhats or safety gear.
They will wonder why we de-valued our lives to the point where we couldn't even take an extra 5 mins to set up a back up line like the IRATA people do.
The IRATA people use two lines for the same fundamental reason as you are proposing the use of a back up device on the single line during SRT!!!! but for them and me the back up device is twice as good because it is a completly separate climbing system.
I'd liked to hear Mahk Adams feelings on the philosophical thought process of this issue as I am a great admirer of his sensible articles in 'Arborist News'.
I've done hundreds of SRT climbs with a back up rope - its the next step forward in SRT climbing!!!
I'm going to have to take one of my anti-heart attack pills now!!
Thank you
Gary
Amen
At some time we're going to stop and say, "If I need this level of safety and backups then maybe I shouldn't be climbing trees in the first place."
[/ QUOTE ]
I find it interesting then, that you would stop short at this moment in time of using two ropes for SRT - one primary line, one backup line. Why specifically stop at this point? Your quote is like something Don Blair would have said? As much as I respect Blair, it is me who is control of my safety, not Don Blair.
What exactly is it that is stopping you from using a back up rope during SRT? time/money? Do you think we will still be using SRT on one line/no back up line in 100 years time? They'll look back at us like we do the guys from decades ago working without hardhats or safety gear.
They will wonder why we de-valued our lives to the point where we couldn't even take an extra 5 mins to set up a back up line like the IRATA people do.
The IRATA people use two lines for the same fundamental reason as you are proposing the use of a back up device on the single line during SRT!!!! but for them and me the back up device is twice as good because it is a completly separate climbing system.
I'd liked to hear Mahk Adams feelings on the philosophical thought process of this issue as I am a great admirer of his sensible articles in 'Arborist News'.
I've done hundreds of SRT climbs with a back up rope - its the next step forward in SRT climbing!!!
I'm going to have to take one of my anti-heart attack pills now!!
Thank you
Gary
Amen
- Location
- Retired in Minneapolis
Pictures of your system would be vauable.
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