ISA Code of Ethics

Chip well put! Last time I checked the ISA was a knowledge based voluntary certification. I wonder IF I missed a memo other something. When did they turn into the compliance police and WHERE are their COPS????

As MOST positions at the Chapter level are held by volunteers, I doubt they would have much interest in sitting at a ISA review panel, OR a court room. Ya can lead a horse to water, BUT the rest is up to the horse.

The ISA has been developing a few NEW certifications, how about publically promoting the Certifications it's some 21000 (could be more by now) members already hold.

I expect something MORE than a magazine and the ability to complete my CEUs on-line for my $205.00 per year. I have sat on the Chapter board, proctored exams, AND NEVER sent them a bill for the milage entitlement I was due.

I will NOT be narc-ing out any more arborists, ISA or other. Been-there-done-that, and now I wouldn't DARE leave my equipment in that town, FOR ANYTHING. By reporting him falsely advertising, the only thing that happened was him being PI$$ED at ME!

I am with Crazy Jimmy, sure we are members, BUT IF they change policy, I think I would appreciate a vote on the change. I could live without the Certification.
 
I have a personal code of ethics that supercedes that of any professional organization I may join. Part of it is something I learned on the playground in Kindergarten: Never Be A Tattletale.

I have caught fellow ISA CA employees stealing.

I've been asked by ISA CA bosses to top trees.

I've been asked by ISA CA bosses to spray for non-existant pests.

I've been asked by ISA CA bosses to dump illegaly.

I suppose I should have the ISA's reporting number on speed-dial by now. But in each situation, I have dealt with it man to man, sometimes I have been able to resolve the situation satisfactorily, sometimes not.

When the resolution has not gone my way, I have either shrugged it off, or I have moved on. Period.

Am I in violation of the ISA's Code of Ethics for not reporting? I suppose I am.

I then suppose that the best I can ask of my fellow ISA members is to turn me in for not reporting. Any takers? That would be ISA# PN-6611AT. Go for it.

I feel the ISA is over-reaching here. Out of touch with the working world, too many MA's, MBA's, PhD's and Lawyers to understand just what they wrote in committee will mean when it hits the ground.

But I see no need to quit the ISA outright because I can't fulfill this new code. There will be adjustments made, compromises, every relationship among reasonable people has them. I just see that the ISA needs MY feedback on this, perhaps yours too if you feel strongly about the reporting aspect of the Code of Ethics.


Northwind
 
I agree north wind,the isa needs to hear feedback regarding this policy.its a bit strange how and organization funded by its member doesn't consult its members before deciding new policys.
 
The by-laws don't require a vote by members unless deemed necessary or appropriate by the board of directors. If these rule changes have occurred while you've been members by all means step up and give them your feedback. It really is a "court of last resort".

I'm not advocating complaining to the ISA about every CA you see in violation but that if these are the rules that exist when you sign on and you decide your against them then why sign on?

I do try to effect change but example. I am often the only person wearing chainsaw protection, hardhat, safety glasses, etc... I wear them all day with many people not giving it a second thought. They just think it's a "Canadian thing". As I develop a more solid base here in Jersey then I think I can speak up more readily to others about using PPE.


As for the reporting element in the code, I think it is a matter of having some sort of enforcement element since it is not done in any other way.

Take a look at the code of ethics of other professions, ours pale in comparison. And those are truly professional associations.
 
well to be clear this is not a bylaw thing or even a member thing but a certification thing and it was adopted in response to an outside audit that pointed out the lack of such a code.

i ratted out a colleague who let his cert lapse but still advertises it...only because i was asked to review his report and found that among alot of other issues. he's pist but i don't care i would do it again. morons bring down the profession and if they need a kick they need a kick.

the non ppe crew i did not sense an educable moment so i just put earplugs in and kept glasses on.

i agree tho that wording at the end seems a little onerous--i will ask for a change too-- but it may be a mistake to interpret it too strongly.
 
I guess im too black and white,if I sign a document then I will adhere to it.Therefore I refuse to sign.I think its a little lazy and even arrogant approach by the ISA.They should of had a grass roots efforts in place years ago with local government to set up programs to qualify arborist.Maybe they would lose control or end up not being needed.Humper in your nine ball comparison you missed one important factor,the judge who called the foul was independent of the game-it was not his competition but and impartial judge.Humper In the ethics code the isa doesnt give you the chose to first go to that person for the offense ,that is never stated-you are to go to the ISA.I just hope any and all who disagree will write the ISA and will see if the voice of its members has any weight.Im gonna continue to write and maybe I'll eventually get a response.But it really doesnt matter-there is so many more important things in life to think about.
 
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I just recieved my recertification information and it mentioned the code of ethics and it talks about following all accepted professional standards and it says that you are to report violations against said code of ethics for certified arborist.

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Is there a handy link to the text of that code of ethics?

Would Certified Arborists recreation climbing illegally in protected forests be a violation of the code of ethics too?

How about crimes or DUI - anything like that?

Or is it just on-the-job practices?

I recall reading that in Hawaii, contractors or landscapers, maybe tree services, to get a license, have to be "clean". Law abiding it seems. Pretty good idea.

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So...what happens if a report of unethical behavior is made?

Is there a public review?

Who is the enforcer?

How are the violations scaled?

What are the consequences?

Does anyone have experience with the process other than Guy who made a comment during a review?
 
Here is a short-cut to the information relevant to this discussion. http://www.isa-arbor.com/CertificationNews.aspx#184

I know it isn't a good idea to read between the lines, however there are a few clues as to WHO will be dealing with the complaints. IMO it will be a trickle down effect. The complaint will go to the International office, from there is appears the Chapter would have to investigate the the regional and local laws, regulations and by-laws.
 
What a professional climber/CA does on their own time (not as a paid professional on the job) has nothing to with their CA status or the ISA. If they're doing something grievously illegal etc. then it's a matter for law enforcement.

It's a stretch to say (I think what's what you're saying in an indirect way) that Oxman is compromising his CA by posting some old rec climbing videos.
-moss

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Based off the .pdf, seems like the activity in the video merits food for thought if it's a CA climbing and not merely using the camera ...

Recrecreational Climbing in Humboldt Old Growth

This type of thing came to our attentions months ago.

Remember this posting on TREEBUZZ:

TREEBUZZ Recreation Climb Posting in Treebuzz.com

The video looks to be dated in the beginning in June. Usually, even scientists are not issued permits in that month.

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This thread has me bustin a gut guys!

Reminds me of Cheap Trick back in the 80's!

" The Tree Police.....they live inside of my head....The Tree Police.....they come to me in my bed ".

What would old Henry Stamper have done to union narcs?

jomoco
 
Has all the makings of a good ole witchhunt. Imagine the future your comp who is already bitter at you because you take his jobs has the authority to regulate you. I'm sorry but regulations must enforced by a non bias third party. I promise this new policy in so many ways has the potential to divide and turn arborist against one another. . .
 
This is ridiculous. If tree co.xyz reports tree co.abc, who is gonna do an investigation. For instance how in the world is someone going to report no ppe and prove it. This sucks.

Jimmy is right, this has "the makings of a good ole witch hunt". I am not a tattle tale and I dont have the time to police anyone but myself.

I agree with Noel, people claiming to be a CA or who use the CA symbol in their ads should be reported, because this is false advertisement. Also why should someone who has not gone thru the studying, and test taking be able to claim this. Ridiculous. I am not a CA, but have been studying my rear off for some time, and I know how hard the test is gonna be and it is irritating that someone could run around claiming to be and use the emblem in ads, and not be one, so I see the point.

D.W.H
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This is ridiculous. If tree co.xyz reports tree co.abc, who is gonna do an investigation. For instance how in the world is someone going to report no ppe and prove it. This sucks.

Jimmy is right, this has "the makings of a good ole witch hunt". I am not a tattle tale and I dont have the time to police anyone but myself.

I agree with Noel, people claiming to be a CA or who use the CA symbol in their ads should be reported, because this is false advertisement. Also why should someone who has not gone thru the studying, and test taking be able to claim this. Ridiculous. I am not a CA, but have been studying my rear off for some time, and I know how hard the test is gonna be and it is irritating that someone could run around claiming to be and use the emblem in ads, and not be one, so I see the point.

D.W.H
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Agreed, but why stop with false advertising? If a company claims to be a CA but isn't, maybe his competitor loses out on a job.

If a CA goes out and tops a bunch of trees, we all look worse to those who know better; those who don't know better think topping is okay; and society loses a resource for stormwater control, air filtering, electricity savings, pavement protection, etc. I think this is a worse violation, and also should be reported. I don't usually think of myself as a tattletale, but if this makes me one, so be it.

But I also see the concerns about a witch hunt. If a bitter competitor decides to falsely accuse me, how will that be handled? Who gets the final say on whether I'm thinning or lion's-tailing when there is a dispute? What happens if I'm hired to correct the damage done by a hack and a competitor sees me in a topped tree, then reports me for topping it?

I'm glad for some kind of enforcement, but I'd like to know more about how this strategy will be applied in the real world.

And, finally, I'm not so sure I like the clause that I could lose my cert if I'm accused of a crime. A) I might not be guilty and B) there are a lot of "crimes" that have no bearing on my ethics or skills as an arborist, and I don't see why they should be significant to my cert.
 
I agree, why should someone who is accused of a crime loose their cert.? Makes no sense.

Babberney, you hit the nail on the head about topped trees. Just like you said what if someone sees you in a previously topped tree and reports you, but you were just doing corrective pruning. Also As stated by Noel, what if an arborist tops out a tree for the homeowner to fall themselves to save money, and they get reported, or furthermore what if the homeowner is a lazya$$ and just never takes the tree down? They get reported by xyz and it was never their intention to top the tree, they were under the impression that the homeowner was going to do the rest. That would suck!!!

D.W.H
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Not to get on a tyraid, but being accused or even convicted of a crime and losing your cert. is absolute horse$hit. Even if I am convicted of a crime, like DUI OR DWI, how does that have any bearing on my qualifications as a CA. Yeah I might have drank to much and drove, but how does that say anything about my qualifications as a tree care professional. Ridiculous. I guess there may be some crimes that have some room for discussion, but I sure cant think of any.

And for the record, I have never had a DUI. But I do know an arborist or two who have and I would be outraged if they were to loose their licsense due to this.

D.W.H
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I agree, why should someone who is accused of a crime loose their cert.? Makes no sense.



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What gives them the right to keep it?

Not their own organization is it?

I've got no stock in the ISA. Just agree with the terms, since it's a voluntary thing. No mandate to pay or join.

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Moss wrote:

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What a professional climber/CA does on their own time (not as a paid professional on the job) has nothing to with their CA status or the ISA. If they're doing something grievously illegal etc. then it's a matter for law enforcement.

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Looking at the .pdf that Guy posted:


"7. Refrain from behavior or conduct that is clearly in violation of professional, ethical, or legal standards"

There appears to be discrepency between your opinion, and that organization's text.

Personally, I say lean toward the ethical, professional and law abiding.

Now, if the ISA intends for "legal standards" to just mean tree work related legal standards, that's different. And a clear written distinction would be handy if that's what they mean. It's possible I missed a clarification - post one if you find it somewhere.

As #7 sits as a sentence, it appears to include legal and ethical conduct beyond just the workplace. Which is really the optimum way to maintain a certification.

Seeing how this certification is not a government managed drivers license or something, there should be no need to cheapen it when there is the option for it to reflect good ethical character.

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