Insure us

[ QUOTE ]
I am that paranoid that we will turn to Socialism, YES!

name one entity the Government runs that at least breaks even, how about ONLY loses 1,000,000 a year? Can you? Come on there must be one....?!

Socialised anything, including healthcare is not the answer. This country needs to get back to its conservative roots, get rid of the Government bloat, and reduce the taxes on Americans. it is gross the size of our Governemnt in the past 20 years, and the rate at which taxes go up.

[/ QUOTE ]

Lay it out there man. What's the fix. How do you propose to accomplish what you would like to see happen. I'm curious to know what you would do, not what you wouldn't do. What role should the govt. have?
 
sure ill go first,

eliminate all the excess wasteful govt jobs, put them intot the private sector. dont have to pay pensions, etc etc.

make a single tax bracket for all americans, the fact that 30% of Americans pay no tax is unacceptable. succesful people should not be taxed more than unsuccesful. all americans should be treated the same.

welfare, medicare/caid needs a complete revamp, way too much waste here and not enough resposibility on the govt part to cut off these funds when the recipients are no longer in need of them or are taking advantage of the system.

get rid of trains, auto industries, and whatever other ridiculous businesses the govt tries to run, they are all failing. Govt doesnt run business, they make law.

tighter border control! 5,000 people a night come through arizona alone!!! this is a burden on our country greater than healthcare 3x over. look at other countries and the immigration laws, take sweden for example. good luck becoming a citizen there. China throws you in prison. France and UK deport you rather quickly. we set them up on welfare and free healthcare.

stop giving so much money to other countries. when will we be repaid? we are still owed money from WWII loans.

get out of Iraq altogether, needless war, and needless American lives lost.

invest more into developing our military. why put American Moms, Dads, Sons, and Daughters in harms way if we have technology to take on target from the air? 1 american life lost is worth more to me than a village of Afghan who are harboring and helping Taliban/Al Qaeda/terrorist/bad guys. use the weapons we have not the let our soildiers be killed!

change the Rules of Engagement so we may fight a fair war. they are unconcerned with ROE and kill their own people yet we cant stop a suspect and even question them!?

change the voting process, must present a valid license or AMERICAN passport. this will greatly reduce voter fraud.


theres plenty more but you get the point.



Now your turn Banjo, whats your plan??
 
i have to agree with tom....people do suck!!! give me animals or nature any day of the week. i do know that i have paid for an education and i can only hope i can earn as much money as i want and no one can tell me i can only make $.... no one would go to the expense of an education and keep being educated if all they were to make was a certain amount of money. the health care system is out of control but most of it is because people!!! there is that word again sue everybody for everything!!!! what would we do if our clients started sueing us,, your insurance rates go up and then so do your fees. some lawsuits are truly legit. but most are greedy people. greedy lawyers.....
 
Well, lawyers like doctors have very expensive educations and to apply the same logic should not be limited as to how much they can earn. The reality is the market, made up of those damn pesky people, do tell us how much we can make. Every time we complain about the cost of something and search for a better price or for that matter don't buy the service or product we are dictating the value. Free market baby!

If we stopped treating doctors like gods and blaming everyone for anything that may happen to us and seeking restitution then maybe, just maybe we can regain some sanity and balance in the marketplace.
 
Right,the market place made up of people decides how much a product or service is worth.NOT the government!That's my point,at least we can agree on that.
This thread is going nowhere fast.Were not going to agree with each other,but at the end of the day i just hope the will of the majority prevails.
 
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at the end of the day i just hope the will of the majority prevails.

[/ QUOTE ]

Unfortunately it really doesnt. (See electoral college)
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-Tom
 
Yes, but which drugs, Jim? Just the ones the Gov't deems illegal?

Are we talking street drugs, Rx drugs, Mary Jane, medical or otherwise, etc...?

And who oversees this drug testing program? An indepent contractor? A government department?

Seriously, there are better ways to manage and regulate government dollars. Drug testing is so J. Edgar Hoover.

And heroin is so passe

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZXMVNOIEyBs

-Tom
 
all drugs Tom, unless you have ascript for them, they shouldnt be in your body. Especially while on Welfare! Stop stealing from my paycheck, get your act together, and get a job! This country is going down thetubes because people suck and noone wants to offend anyone by asking them to be responsible and not steal from their fellow citizens, grow a set people, be an ADULT!
 
Now you're relying on the doctors, trusting that what they prescribe is OK for society. This is a bad assumption on your part. Trust me on this one, I have first hand experience with MD's prescribing REALLY INAPPROPRIATE DRUGS, sometimes under pressure from the pharmaceutical industry. So this entire platform is flawed. better to focus on making folks work and be responsible rather than what's in their body.

-Tom
 
No one has read the article I posted the link for when I started this thread. It's clear from the rhetoric of the "leave business alone so they can do the right thing" responses that in a most sickening manner, people not only do not understand the failures of the health care system, they're actually supportive of the mechanisms that caused it.

If business can not regulate themselves, who should? And if those failures has caused catastrophic consequence for the citizens of this country, who's in a position to rectify them?

No one has introduced any legislation that would actually mean socialist health care. It's very telling to realize anyone's claim to that is directly repeating the rhetoric of the party who lost the last election along with the economy we were all dependent on - and the talking points of these people are exactly what resulted in business run amok and failures in all catagories of the public trust that put us here - where fixing the problems of those who spoke then, are loudly complaining now, and want more of the same as evidenced by the claims they still hold dear.

Business failed us - we forget that. We're very receptive to their message however, we'll fight for their rights to be left alone, unencumbered by any regulation or oversight, and trust them in spite of what festered and exploded the last time they ran things the way they wanted to.

Doctors don't make decisions anymore - the insurance carrier does. HOw is it that a company's bottom line is something we're willing to trust our and our children's lives to? What evidence or experience should show someone that things are amiss out there besides the rhetoric of disgruntled loudmouthed opposition to any attempts to try and fix things?

Drugs made to "spec" in China, costs cut but prices the same - imported and reliant on the company making and marketing them that what we're getting is what they claim?
We're not capable of testing them all, only the word of the maker that they're up to snuff. Well they lied about the premium increases, coverage offered, and services that they re-imburse for. So we trust them to do the right thing, like AIG and Smith Barney and QWest?

Trusting Rush Limbaugh and the wingers/tea baggers to fight for our interests while they support the notion of leaving big pharma and health insurers and financial trusts alone to be "free" is a lot of hope on false promise in my book, so far they have been free and the results of that are evident in the broken system we're all suffering from, paying for, and depend on still until a system is created that at least regulates them, for the common good and nothing is out there but guess what...we are.

Read the link and weep. It's what we let happen and unless we - through government intervention - address and change it...expect more of the same.
 
Try this one on for size... This is the a definition put forth by a prominent business school (Princeton, I think) from the early to mid 20th century:

The definition of a PROFESSION:

"A capable body of individuals, who, using a carefully scripted and described body of knowledge, use that knowledge to advance society's interests rather than private interests."

In other words, with knowledge comes responsibility. Sorry if it sounds 'Socialist.'

-Tom
 
tom

fixing the healthcare system would eliminate the fraud that you just outlined. getting rid of lobbyists like i said earlier would help with this issue as well.




illegal search and seizure? youre kidding right? you sign up for welfare, you abide by the rules! no drug tests, no money from your fellow citizens. i feel my 4th amendment right is violated paying for lazy illegal immigrants spitting out children.




Oak
noone wants to read your long winded posts, just get to the point already.
 
OAK

socialism doesnt happen overnight, baby steps, Obama knows this and is trying his hardest.

6 of the last 8 years CONGRESS has been democratically controlled. Presidents dont create laws, you know this right?
 
Oh.. and let's don't forget to burn all the witches while we're out a' hunting. And the teen age immigrant welfare mothers on drugs too.

I don't hear any Obama bashers offering anything in the way of a fix, just a lot of knee jerking "take this back, take that back, and whatever you do. don't do that" rhetoric. I kind of think the so called conservatives (I think they just want to conserve the continuation of corporate largess) are kind of afraid that health care reform might actually work.. then where will they and their rhetoric be? So they'd rather rail against something that might actually work and benefit the public, since it's not their idea...or ideology.
 
[ QUOTE ]
Oh.. and let's don't forget to burn all the witches while we're out a' hunting. And the teen age immigrant welfare mothers on drugs too.

I don't hear any Obama bashers offering anything in the way of a fix, just a lot of knee jerking "take this back, take that back, and whatever you do. don't do that" rhetoric. I kind of think the so called conservatives (I think they just want to conserve the continuation of corporate largess) are kind of afraid that health care reform might actually work.. then where will they and their rhetoric be? So they'd rather rail against something that might actually work and benefit the public, since it's not their idea...or ideology.

[/ QUOTE ]

It's funny how the obama supporter's are blind to any idea's other than there own.Did you read BB's post?He outlined a lot of the idea's from the conservative side.This is why bi-partisan support is a joke.to the democrat's it means accepting all of there idea's and none of the conservative one's.If this is such a great bill,why didn't they pass it?They didn't need a single vote from the republican's.Maybe it had something to do with angry voter's promising to dethrone the politicians who try to force this down the public's throat.

Oak,your link was a path to a blank page right after you posted it.That's why nobody read it.

p.s. all teenage illegal immigrant mother's on drugs should definitely be burned at the proverbial stake!
 
[ QUOTE ]
Oh.. and let's don't forget to burn all the witches while we're out a' hunting. And the teen age immigrant welfare mothers on drugs too.

I don't hear any Obama bashers offering anything in the way of a fix, just a lot of knee jerking "take this back, take that back, and whatever you do. don't do that" rhetoric. I kind of think the so called conservatives (I think they just want to conserve the continuation of corporate largess) are kind of afraid that health care reform might actually work.. then where will they and their rhetoric be? So they'd rather rail against something that might actually work and benefit the public, since it's not their idea...or ideology.

[/ QUOTE ]

I thought I presented a fair outline, brioef and to the point.

Who witch hunting? You thionk we shouldnt be kicking the illegals out of this country, or do you think they are a myth like the Witches of Salem, MA!?

What is your fix? Come one lets hear it!
 
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Oh.. and let's don't forget to burn all the witches while we're out a' hunting. And the teen age immigrant welfare mothers on drugs too.

I don't hear any Obama bashers offering anything in the way of a fix, just a lot of knee jerking "take this back, take that back, and whatever you do. don't do that" rhetoric. I kind of think the so called conservatives (I think they just want to conserve the continuation of corporate largess) are kind of afraid that health care reform might actually work.. then where will they and their rhetoric be? So they'd rather rail against something that might actually work and benefit the public, since it's not their idea...or ideology.

[/ QUOTE ]

I thought I presented a fair outline, brief and to the point.

Whos witch hunting? You think we shouldnt be kicking the illegals out of this country, or do you think they are a myth like the Witches of Salem, MA!?

What is your fix? Come one lets hear it!

Whats the answer? MORE regulations, MORE laws, and MORE Government?

[/ QUOTE ]
 
[ QUOTE ]
tom

fixing the healthcare system would eliminate the fraud that you just outlined. getting rid of lobbyists like i said earlier would help with this issue as well.




illegal search and seizure? youre kidding right? you sign up for welfare, you abide by the rules! no drug tests, no money from your fellow citizens. i feel my 4th amendment right is violated paying for lazy illegal immigrants spitting out children.




Oak
noone wants to read your long winded posts, just get to the point already.

[/ QUOTE ]


So you want to put more stuff into the private sector, but you think lobbyists are a problem. I'm sure you realize that the private sector are the ones hiring the lobbyists. Its kind of like a one legged a@# kicking contest.

Your disdain for immigrants is confusing. Aren't they just playing the free market game and getting a lot of Americans to vote for them with their dollars?


Pog mo thoin, its your sig, suggesting you are of Irish heritage. Don't forget we Americans all came from somewhere, at some point, with some story.
 
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