Looking for a descender or climbing device with a "neutral" mode

Jehinten said:
As the title says, I'm looking for a device, preferably a single rope tool, that can be locked into a neutral phase where the rope can pull straight through it, then be switched to an engaged position to catch the rope. Does any of the devices out there do this?

For context, on crane removals with long limb walks, I prefer to run a second tie in to the center of the tree. Doubled rope to the crane ball and SRT to the tree. When coming back from setting slings I tighten the SRT line and rapel off of the doubled rope to drift back to the cut. The reason for the "neutral" is to allow the SRT rope to run through the device hands free if I'm busy with other task as the crane is moving, such as pushing limbs out of the way or straightening out slings...

Currently I run an akimbo or rope runner on that rope and I just collaps the bird to slack it, however if I'm busy or forget to grab it, it plays tug o war with the crane cable until I fix it making it harder on the operator to set me where he wants to.
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unicender with correct rope diameter falls through the device sometimes to ghr ldvel of annoyance
 
snunyabizness said:
unicender with correct rope diameter falls through the device sometimes to ghr ldvel of annoyance
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Ha yes. Which is why when advancing an anchor on a Rope Wrench I pull up the slack I need to capture the next anchor, tie a slip knot above the wrench and lock it down on the bird. Disappearing slack (when you don't want it to happen) when the tail of the rope is heavy enough has always been a problem in need of fixing.
-AJ
 
Bart_ said:
I think it's playing with fire to have a hitch-compressor, hitch-RW collapse-er, bird hold down etc on a life support ppe piece of equipment. you could see why - one mistake operationally and ....
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From a high-level safety perspective yes. For the situation described tied into a tree and a crane ball at the same time it's basically an "on/off" switch. When the bird is compressed it won't grab which is what the operator wants. The bird constraint idea is specifically for the OP's scenario.

Off the top of anyone's head, any dangerous situations you can come up with for an accidentally constrained bird on a wrench or mechanical while anchored into a tree and a crane ball?
-AJ
 
Kinda going thru this thread again - would a D4 work - it has a panic feature that puts the thing back into sorta"neutral" or just hanging there. There's other ISC models that don't have this feature though. Crank the lever some more and you get descending mode back. I've used it both in tree and on residential roof work and it's really smooth and does a 3:1 setup. Dave at Wesspur has a review of autobraking descenders. Cheers.
 
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The concept I'm presenting is careful procedures followed vs a mental slip up. The slip up could or could not lead to a fall. PPE tends to not fall. That's neglecting functional reliability when you toggle back to PPE mode.

Correct me if I'm wrong but at some point it's the sole PPE. (?) Or could be. Even unintentionally ie mental slip up.
 
I agree - always aim for redundant if possible and simple for safety. Even at that, in an engineering sense I guess, our equipment has potential for what's called common mode failure - say redundant systems connected to a single swivel or single bridge. Many incidents take place with new workers but probably as many can be attributed to experienced journeymen working on "autopilot" or having a moments inattention. It is one of the things I've wondered about with helmet comms and a crane operator. Lots of chatting and joking which is peachy until there's a step missed somewhere and then oops. Gravity is unforgiving.
 
ghostice said:
Kinda going thru this thread again - would a D4 work - it has a panic feature that puts the thing back into sorta"neutral" or just hanging there. There's other ISC models that don't have this feature though. Crank the lever some more and you get descending mode back. I've used it both in tree and on residential roof work and it's really smooth and does a 3:1 setup. Dave at Wesspur has a review of autobraking descenders. Cheers.
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I'll look into that. Unfortunately the only arborist supply store around is a vermeer dealer with limited supply. They wouldn't have any of these devices in store to check out in person.
 
Bart_ said:
Correct me if I'm wrong but at some point it's the sole PPE. (?) Or could be. Even unintentionally ie mental slip up.
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I appreciate the concern and I understand where your coming from on that.

In my scenario, your still tied into the crane until you reach where your cutting, lanyard in, remove crane tie in, cut. Tie back into the crane, lanyard off, place device in neutral. With the use of a lanyard your never soley on the one device.

Granted you may decide to rappel out of the tree, but you'd be using it in an engaged function then.
 
How much drag in neutral do you want? Since is not life support would a scarab work? Essentially a one barrel rack with ears? You could probably figure the right line diameter to run with minimum resistance and still be functional for your need.
Or a stitch plate?
There are many configurations of the totem plate, but most will twist the line
Maybe something out there in the canyonering world, they need control and sudden ‘free’ to avoid drowning

Sounds like your looking for something like a figure 8, that essentially is in ‘free fall mode’ when hands off but functions with hands on?
 
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Have any of you used a scarab for light rigging? Like in place of a porta wrap? Or what I’m thinking, it might be cool at the terminus of speed line.
 
Evo said:
How much drag in neutral do you want? Since is not life support would a scarab work? Essentially a one barrel rack with ears? You could probably figure the right line diameter to run with minimum resistance and still be functional for your need.
Or a stitch plate?
There are many configurations of the totem plate, but most will twist the line
Maybe something out there in the canyonering world, they need control and sudden ‘free’ to avoid drowning

Sounds like your looking for something like a figure 8, that essentially is in ‘free fall mode’ when hands off but functions with hands on?
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I had considered the scarab, however I bought and use mine for rigging. It may work and is probably worth testing at ground level before buying a new one.
 
chiselbit said:
Have any of you used a scarab for light rigging? Like in place of a porta wrap? Or what I’m thinking, it might be cool at the terminus of speed line.
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I have used it for light rigging, I can't recall if I used it for a speedline.

I really like how it doesn't introduce twist in the rope the way a figure 8 would and it doesn't require unclipping the device to thread the rope onto it.
 
chiselbit said:
Have any of you used a scarab for light rigging? Like in place of a porta wrap? Or what I’m thinking, it might be cool at the terminus of speed line.
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Boomslang had a good video on YouTube of him using the scarab. I recall it, because he was also using a sling I had come up with for remote releasing limbs while solo rigging. I'll look for the link.
 
chiselbit said:
I need one. And that releasable sling is genius
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They are great, don’t use mine very frequently but mostly in a situation where I can just let a piece “free” run.
Did so yesterday on a very poorly planned solo job. Only had one bar on my husky batt saw, and really didn’t want to make salad with a handsaw.

20’ Doug fir limb broken, still attached hanging straight down. Only had a 20% radius of a drop zone barely long enough for the limb.
Set the scarab on a chunk of scrap rope for a sling, use my tail for a rig line.
The scarab allows a hands free slow descent of the limb and kept it upright without flopping. Tips on ground and I was able to steer the butt from the fence, shed, and kiddie pool.

Broke a fair number of ‘rules’ but got it done with what I had.
 
chiselbit said:
I need one. And that releasable sling is genius
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Thanks! I have a spliced version but I like how easy his is to build with available parts.


The scarab is great. Like @Evo I don't use mine super often. We did pull it out the other day for a climber to control a controlled speedline while I pulled the speedline to land in a tight spot.
 
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