Insure us

It is all rhetoric on both sides. Can there ever be agreement that healthcare needs to be provided to all and a mechanism to deliver it be created?

Healthcare as it stands now is a perk provided by companies to it's employees. It can and has been used as a bargaining tool by both business and unions. The fact remains, we need to take better care of the population as health and wellbeing is crucial to the overall economic success of a country.
 
The 800 lb gorilla that no one seems to want to address is the fact that 16.5% of the US GNP is spent annually on health care. This is 5% more than that of the nearest industrialized nation.

Even if our health care model actually worked, it means we're spotting competing nations in world economic markets an enormous competitive edge. These nations can then subsidize educating their populace so that they're more competitive in the work force, develop more fuel efficient means of utilizing energy, and build their infrastructures, while we instead, as a nation, bleed arterially, paying excessive premiums hand over fist to unbridled insurance interests who basically make money by raising premiums and dropping policy holders.

This is a national security issue, and demands national oversight. Should a government OPTION not be a viable alternative to other insurance offerings, the marketplace will see that it fails to thrive.
 
This is a national security issue, and demands national oversight. Should a government OPTION not be a viable alternative to other insurance offerings, the marketplace will see that it fails to thrive.

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This isn't entirely true.If the government option was put into law,it would have the advantage of not having to make a profit,and actually being able to run at a huge loss essentially forever.Market forces don't apply to an entity that can print it's own money.
 
It could be written into the bill that this operates as a zero sum game. But then the doctors, hospitals, and healthcare pros would be bitching....
 
We're running at a 5% GNP loss right now, and the insurance companies and pharmaceutical manufacturers are printing that money out of our treasury right now, so what's the diff?

I really don't see how a government option can be any worse than the current health care fiasco.
 
True enough. The only reason I see is the desire for it to be a "free market" enterprise vs. evil socialism...


My mother-in-law is currently going thru radiation treatment on top of recovery from knee replacement surgury and the only difference I've seen between the U.S. and Canadian healthcare is she got crappy care faster. Same attitudes prevail in both, overburdened, too costly, understaffed, overworked. It seems that too much of the work being done by caregivers is paperwork.

my .02
 
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True enough. The only reason I see is the desire for it to be a "free market" enterprise vs. evil socialism...


My mother-in-law is currently going thru radiation treatment on top of recovery from knee replacement surgury and the only difference I've seen between the U.S. and Canadian healthcare is she got crappy care faster. Same attitudes prevail in both, overburdened, too costly, understaffed, overworked. It seems that too much of the work being done by caregivers is paperwork.

my .02

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Socialism isn't really true <u>evil</u> but is without a doubt something I want nothing to do with!
 
Looks like were all going to have to agree to disagree on the issue of government run healthcare.Saying the republicans obstructed the passing of the bill is horse poop!!It could have been passed without a single shred of republican support.The democrats started getting worried about there future in office because it was very apparent a majority did not want this bill.
 
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Or:

"Why do aspirin cost $15 at the hospital?"

I can't wait for someone to defend that one.

-Tom

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Tom I just got that answer the other day, not a defense but an explanation. It is not just the aspirin, it is everything.

Bottom line is that MEDICARE, by law, tells hospitals that if they accept Medicare patients then the hospital HAS TO ACCEPT what medicare will pay no matter what the services are (or are required by law)

Based upon the reimbursement budget for where my wife runs a hospital physical rehab unit the MEDICARE program typically pays less 40% of what that care actually costs and sometimes nothing at all.

Congress has also said that health care practices cannot bill medicare patients for the difference. Consequently, those costs have to be covered...your aspirin now costs $15 in a hospital.

Free government healthcare is never free and certainly not healthcare!

And to the discussion about health insurance from employers. The reason that was even brought to the work place was because CONGRESS capped wages in the early part of last century! In order to attract quality people business had to start offering perks. Health insurance was one of the first.

Now if free healthcare is a right, and congress has established that it is legal to take my property to pay for someone elses health care then I say why stop there?

There are thousands of people dying because they need a kidney. Since most of us have two and science has proven that we can easily live on one, then let's pass a law that everyone has to go on a kidney donor list and give up a kidney to save some poor unfortunate soul who needs one.

Point is, no one on this board would go for that. The fruits of you body, the fruits of your efforts belong to you and nobody else and to even consider taking any of it away by law, ergo by force, is just plain immoral and wrong!
 
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This isn't entirely true.If the government option was put into law,it would have the advantage of not having to make a profit,and actually being able to run at a huge loss essentially forever.Market forces don't apply to an entity that can print it's own money.

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Do you realize how many functioning non-profit organizations are in this country? This is a link to a non-profit health care organization. Widely considered to be one of the best models out there. I would rather not give my money to a company/organization who wants to (and will) profit from my grandma's breast cancer.

https://www.kaiserpermanente.org/


I think we need to take the profit motive out of the industry. I think all health care should be run by non-profits.
 
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This isn't entirely true.If the government option was put into law,it would have the advantage of not having to make a profit,and actually being able to run at a huge loss essentially forever.Market forces don't apply to an entity that can print it's own money.

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Do you realize how many functioning non-profit organizations are in this country? This is a link to a non-profit health care organization. Widely considered to be one of the best models out there. I would rather not give my money to a company/organization who wants to (and will) profit from my grandma's breast cancer.

https://www.kaiserpermanente.org/


I think we need to take the profit motive out of the industry. I think all health care should be run by non-profits.

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Do you understand what a non-profit is?They are still run by business men.At the end of the year the books had better come out in the black or at least even.The government also doesn't understand the theory of a non-profit entity.And I can tell you right now,they would run it like everything else there in charge of DEEP IN THE RED!Like i said they can print money.If I was in need of a major surgery such as a heart transplant or heart surgery,i sure as hell wouldn't get it at kaiser!!I would go to the cleveland clinic where the best heart doctor's in the world reside.Think about this,why would someone go through 12+ years of medical school and go $500,000 in debt to student loans,just to make whatever measly salary you decide he deserves?Nobody would do that,nobody!!Good doctor's make lots of money and they should.Lot's of money=good doctor's....crap money=crap doctor's!!
 
Ooh! I know the reason that the healthcare system doesn't work, and why the middle class is disappearing, and why the world will be perepetually at war! Are you ready? Do you know the answer? ....................... It's really simple.............................................




















PEOPLE SUCK!
 
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Ooh! I know the reason that the healthcare system doesn't work, and why the middle class is disappearing, and why the world will be perepetually at war! Are you ready? Do you know the answer? ....................... It's really simple.............................................




















PEOPLE SUCK!

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yes some do
 
6t56, you are wrong about $=Quality.

Despite my contention that PEOPLE SUCK, which I stand behind 100% (just watch the news),

I am continually amazed by the work of many doctors, nurses, and veterinarians that share their time and expertise with others for the greater good or the benefit of those with less resources.

Unfortunately, the majority of them, having spent more than any one person should ever invest in an education/training, are jaded and so far in debt that they have to capitalize on the system in order to pay their education loans. So I don't blame them, really.

Your post about cost of school/salary/debt sounds like you think that it's simply up to the doctor to choose whether they go for the big bucks or languish in debt and mediocrity...

"Think about this,why would someone go through 12+ years of medical school and go $500,000 in debt to student loans, just to make whatever measly salary you decide he deserves?Nobody would do that,nobody!!Good doctor's make lots of money and they should.Lot's of money=good doctor's....crap money=crap doctor's!!"

This sounds like paranoia to me. Are you THAT afraid that this country is turning SOCIALIST? What you suggest is not even a possible reality! ..."just to make whatever measly salary you decide he deserves?"

..Was someone suggesting that we (the public) decide what a doctors salary should be?

Come on, man!
 
I am that paranoid that we will turn to Socialism, YES!

name one entity the Government runs that at least breaks even, how about ONLY loses 1,000,000 a year? Can you? Come on there must be one....?!

Socialised anything, including healthcare is not the answer. This country needs to get back to its conservative roots, get rid of the Government bloat, and reduce the taxes on Americans. it is gross the size of our Governemnt in the past 20 years, and the rate at which taxes go up.
 
Doctors and all the rest of the medical professionals are human and prone to all the frailties and failings. There are plenty of well paid hacks that chase the dollars at the expense of their patients and then there are those that have gone to med school for, wait for this, the opportunity to provide quality medical attention to those that need it not just those that can afford it.

While the education is expensive this doesn't justify the exorbitant costs. It is another excuse to explain it away.

This country is nowhere near socialism and will never get there. But it does need regulation of the market place to keep greed at bay.
 
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