DRT

I wasn't talking to you specifically. Sorry I I came off rude or combative. I feel the whole industry has been wasting time. Myself included.
 
treebing said:
I wasn't talking to you specifically. Sorry I I came off rude or combative. I feel the whole industry has been wasting time. Myself included.
Click to expand...

I really dont understand why you're so frustrated....because no body else appears to be. Using your climbline in a Doubled line configuration (DdRT) is completely different than using it how most people understand SRT. If petzl or ART want to specify that their products only be used DdRt then thats up to them. They are ultimately liable as both products are classified as life support. You on the other hand have made it quite clear that the RW is not classified as life support....even though it effects the functionality of the primary life support gadget or hitch, what ever that be....which is a bit of a head scratcher for me in itself, but whatever. But in the event of a spiderjack/wrench accident ART would be expected to bear the liability if they advocated that particular combo....whilst you wouldn't....unless a judge ultimately saw it differently.

From my experience climbers who choose DdRT do it because they prefer the load share of the doubled line, which allows them to choose from just a basic taughtline hitch to the more sophisticated equipment mentioned already. They prefer having the 2:1 option at all times....which makes for easier management of your weight and tension of the line during limbwalks etc...no extra hardware required. And with that a climber is able to haul his weight up and around the tree through arm power alone. Just the fact of seeing two lines in font of them has nothing to do with anything. Its all down to choice and playing to your strengths....and you shouldn't get frustrated that people do things their own way.
 
Frustrated would specifically refer to my experience as a competition climber. Which I am not involved in anymore because I didn't need to be frustrated. I have never experienced frustration with this topic outside of the comp world.

Yes, the wrench says for a single line. Not for primary life support. The zz art says. For single line use for primary life support, which is something the RIG even says.

You could interpret not for primary life support to mean needs to be DRT. It could in fact mean DRT if you wanted to interpret it that way.
 
My intention is that it meant you need to tie a hitch that you trust your life to in order to use the RW. Don't put your trust in an RW to do anything for you at all on its own.
 
treebing said:
Frustrated would specifically refer to my experience as a competition climber. Which I am not involved in anymore because I didn't need to be frustrated. I have never experienced frustration with this topic outside of the comp world.

Yes, the wrench says for a single line. Not for primary life support. The zz art says. For single line use for primary life support, which is something the RIG even says.

You could interpret not for primary life support to mean needs to be DRT. It could in fact mean DRT if you wanted to interpret it that way.
Click to expand...
Every official diagram or advertisement for the ZZ and SJ that I am aware if show the respective devices being used in a DdRT configuration and never attached to just a single strand of line. If a person purchases either device with a set of instructions I think it's pretty clear how it is to be used.
 
As for the ITCC, I believe they are awaiting word for the manufacturer and designer of climbing hitches to see they approve of there use on a single line or a single line.

The tests that I have done and Paolo has done as well as the treemagineers have done confirm that if tied correctly, a hitch can be trusted both dSRT as well as sSRT to keep a climber from hitting the ground.
 
I only see one single rope in that diagram. No different than the rw instructions. The RW works both dSRT, sSRT, and DRT as long as you have a good hitch.
 
The zig zag does sneak in there that you can use the zig zag sSRT as long as you don't try to descend without the help of a friction device such as a Munter hitch. I'm not sure what the manufacturer of munter hitches has to say on the subject.
 
treebing said:
My intention is that it meant you need to tie a hitch that you trust your life to in order to use the RW. Don't put your trust in an RW to do anything for you at all on its own.
Click to expand...
Fair enough, but you wouldn't be using a hitch on its own on a single static line for tree work....it wouldn't function and is why nobody ever does. The wrench makes it fuctionable....and a viable means to access the tree. The hitch is used in a looser configuration with aid of the wrench, because if the wrench. In that sense it is life support as the two separate pieces of hardware rely on each other to allow the climber to put is full weight in the system and and stop-go to different parts of the line. You wouldn't use one without the other.
 
But see, we are arguing about semantics and CYA jargon.

With this thread I was looking for people who have experience with the DRT mindset and might be able to contribute their findings.
 
Reg said:
Fair enough, but you wouldn't be using a hitch on its own on a single static line for tree work....it wouldn't function and is why nobody ever does. The wrench makes it fuctionable....and a viable means to access the tree. The hitch is used in a looser configuration with aid of the wrench, because if the wrench. In that sense it is life support as the two separate pieces of hardware rely on each other to allow the climber to put is full weight in the system and and stop-go to different parts of the line. You wouldn't use one without the other.
Click to expand...
The rope wrench instructions do not specify you to use a looser hitch because of the wrench. Doing so is at your own risk.
 
treebing said:
The rope wrench instructions do not specify you to use a looser hitch because of the wrench. Doing so is at your own risk.
Click to expand...
It doesn't have too. Its happens automatically. Same as without it would bind up like locktite. The wrench affects the hitch's function ability.
 
I have not heard any cases of the wrench adversely affecting a life supporting hitch. I don't know why I am spending my Friday explaining how a rope wrench works. My dump truck is stuck in up mode and I am driving around looking for an obscure solenoid.

 
Last edited:
If you have doubts or concerns about your hitch tying profficiency or any of your gear such as a cracked zig zag. DRT might be a good option for you.
 
I never said it affected the hitch adversely either.....just that it affected it. Although, there was that incident posted of the guy who got his glove jammed in the hand ascender, which then pressed on the wrench, which subsequently pressed the hitch in to release mode. But whatever, its a combo of factors. You know I love the wrench mate....it one if the top 5 innovative concepts I've seen since I started climbing. But in my mind if it affects life support, then it us life support.

Don't let me waste any more of your time anyway. Good luck with your truck. Avoid low bridges and branches.
 
My reason for DRT does not concern any doubts in gear. It is concern over losing control of my sharp and powerful tools, a known propensity for brainfarts and untying myself high in the sky, and my bad habit of avoiding to use my lanyard. I will continue to SRT recreationally, but I don't see the point while at work. 490 hours left to go of my experiment.
 
Last edited:
Yes sir, bit of a agitating day here on my end. However, I do think that there is great potential for DRT in the arb world, for many number of reasons. Kong rings, broken zigzags, ugly hitches... I don't worry too much about those things although I did watch a ring fail a SRT climber in front of a crowd of people at a comp. Scary. Climbing SRT is perfectly acceptable though and i know you are perfectly capable of constructing bomber hitches. the ARB world is the only place I know of where it is the norm in a work place environment and I think that's a good thing. I have climbed safely SRT since 1996 and before that recreationally on the rocks. It's a good method. DRT is not as bad as you might imagine though. More to come.


Reg said:
I missed that one. A touch condescending. Let's keep it civil.
Click to expand...
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.

New threads New posts

Back
Top Bottom