DMM throw hook.

[Santiago Casanova]

I climb with a hand saw because sometimes the trees need our help. If it is not my tree I will ask first. If it poses a risk, like a broken branch hanging on by a few fibers, I would prune back the hanger to a suitable union. Both the tree and anybody under it are better off in that case. I understand the philosophy of leave no trace, but if the health of the tree is going to be improved I see nothing wrong with a little dead wood removal or pruning rubbing branches.

 

[moss]

I climb with a hand saw because sometimes the trees need our help. If it is not my tree I will ask first. If it poses a risk, like a broken branch hanging on by a few fibers, I would prune back the hanger to a suitable union. Both the tree and anybody under it are better off in that case. I understand the philosophy of leave no trace, but if the health of the tree is going to be improved I see nothing wrong with a little dead wood removal or pruning rubbing branches.

I understand but the problem is if you're on public land for example you're doing it without permission which pisses off land managers to no end. If you're doing it with permission no worries.
-AJ

 

[Santiago Casanova]

When I am climbing on public land I have to fight the urge to do a little maintenance on the neglected trees. Some really beautiful trees could last a lot longer if our county would actually maintain them. Instead they wait until they break and then clean up the damage.

A year or two ago we actually had a live oak fall on a miata right on the main road through town. The driver died. A pine tree also killed a girl at one of our springs when it broke apart. It is really sad because these were public trees that were supposedly maintained. These deaths and other property damage could have been avoided. I know you guys are saying that an arborist can't predict everything, but I am not an arborist and I have called out several trees before they came down. Some aspects of maintenance don't need training, just a little common sense. Add training to common sense and you have a winning combo. Give someone with no common sense training and you get mature live oaks with massive flush cuts.

Public trees can be the best for climbing but it also makes me sad to see them neglected. I really like climbing on private property when the owner is happy to have you do a little dead wood removal. I get my exercise and the tree is better off because of it.

 

[moss]

What I'll say is if you're climbing with a saw and pruning you're not rec climbing, you're working, even if for free. Tree maintenance over targets on public land is another issue. I'm talking about trees in the woods not over targets, trees have been doing fine for many millions of years without human intervention. I understand what you're saying, philosophical differences, a tree doesn't need me ;-) When we are hired to work on properties we do everything we can do to mitigate risk for the home or business owner, rec climbing is a completely different animal. There's a long thread on pruning on the Buzz which has a bunch of different viewpoints on this. Back to hooking hopefully.
-AJ

 

[Burrapeg]

What I'll say is if you're climbing with a saw and pruning you're not rec climbing, you're working, even if for free. Tree maintenance over targets on public land is another issue. I'm talking about trees in the woods not over targets, trees have been doing fine for many millions of years without human intervention. I understand what you're saying, philosophical differences, a tree doesn't need me ;-) When we are hired to work on properties we do everything we can do to mitigate risk for the home or business owner, rec climbing is a completely different animal. There's a long thread on pruning on the Buzz which has a bunch of different viewpoints on this. Back to hooking hopefully.
-AJ

Yeah, good point, AJ, about leaving no trace. That is especially important up here where I live in Puget Sound. Everyone is very environmentally conscious and of course it is a very heavily traveled, eco-destination part of the country. And the worst I have been cut is with a bloody hand saw! I have never (knock on wood, haha) had an accident with a chainsaw, but I have cut myself badly a half dozen times with hand pruning saws. I feel you are right, rec climbing means as a rule no saws up the tree with you. And I will keep in mind what you said about a swing back into a trunk. Even with a helmet on, the rest of me doesn't bounce like it used to when I was younger!

 

[Santiago Casanova]

Yeah, good point, AJ, about leaving no trace. That is especially important up here where I live in Puget Sound. Everyone is very environmentally conscious and of course it is a very heavily traveled, eco-destination part of the country. And the worst I have been cut is with a bloody hand saw! I have never (knock on wood, haha) had an accident with a chainsaw, but I have cut myself badly a half dozen times with hand pruning saws. I feel you are right, rec climbing means as a rule no saws up the tree with you. And I will keep in mind what you said about a swing back into a trunk. Even with a helmet on, the rest of me doesn't bounce like it used to when I was younger!

Swing back is one of my big fears. I try to mitigate it whenever possible. I think the hook is best used to get you close enough to get a lanyard or second line around the target. I would not use it for horizontal traverses. That being said it is still on my to but list.

 

[Santiago Casanova]

What I'll say is if you're climbing with a saw and pruning you're not rec climbing, you're working, even if for free. Tree maintenance over targets on public land is another issue. I'm talking about trees in the woods not over targets, trees have been doing fine for many millions of years without human intervention. I understand what you're saying, philosophical differences, a tree doesn't need me ;-) When we are hired to work on properties we do everything we can do to mitigate risk for the home or business owner, rec climbing is a completely different animal. There's a long thread on pruning on the Buzz which has a bunch of different viewpoints on this. Back to hooking hopefully.
-AJ

I would agree that in general trees don't need us and are better off without us. That being said, when a tree is cleared around and made a singular feature on a property it tends to grow differently. These are the ones that I see neglect issues with. The ones in the woods are in competition and they grow just fine.

 

[moss]

Yeah, good point, AJ, about leaving no trace. That is especially important up here where I live in Puget Sound. Everyone is very environmentally conscious and of course it is a very heavily traveled, eco-destination part of the country. And the worst I have been cut is with a bloody hand saw! I have never (knock on wood, haha) had an accident with a chainsaw, but I have cut myself badly a half dozen times with hand pruning saws. I feel you are right, rec climbing means as a rule no saws up the tree with you. And I will keep in mind what you said about a swing back into a trunk. Even with a helmet on, the rest of me doesn't bounce like it used to when I was younger!

I believe more climbers are injured with hand saws than chain saws, your guard is down "What could go wrong?" ;-) It can go wrong.

 

[Burrapeg]

I know the hook is not officially rated for life support, but the thing seems more than strong enough for ordinary climbing with it. I jumped on mine fully loaded with all gear a number of times at ground level and it showed no sign of weakness. It is easily far stronger than most of my aluminium biners. Of course it is still a hook and the smaller limbs it is intended for are a weak point for sure. Has anyone here actually climbed on a Captain hook on a regular basis, in moving up a TIP or similar? I mean, other than traversing in addition to a main climbing system?

 

[theatertech87]

I know the hook is not officially rated for life support, but the thing seems more than strong enough for ordinary climbing with it. I jumped on mine fully loaded with all gear a number of times at ground level and it showed no sign of weakness. It is easily far stronger than most of my aluminium biners. Of course it is still a hook and the smaller limbs it is intended for are a weak point for sure. Has anyone here actually climbed on a Captain hook on a regular basis, in moving up a TIP or similar? I mean, other than traversing in addition to a main climbing system?

The few times I've had opportunity to climb since I got my hook, I found myself using it as an easy to set lanyard. Not sure if it overs the attached to a tree twice rule for cutting with a chainsaw, but it obeys the spirit of the rule

 

[moss]

The few times I've had opportunity to climb since I got my hook, I found myself using it as an easy to set lanyard. Not sure if it overs the attached to a tree twice rule for cutting with a chainsaw, but it obeys the spirit of the rule

I usually put my short lanyard around something when I'm doing that. The Hook is awesome for creating super strong positioning when you're running a saw.
-AJ

 

[rope-a-dope]

All that gear is the light version? Whew!

 

[Brocky]

@rope-a-dope, you mean you don't take Sherpas into the tree with you to carrying your gear? How odd.

 

[Burrapeg]

I did something similar with my extra long CE lanyard, adding a hitch and tending pulley on the tail end of the lanyard along with the hook. Have not had a chance, with this wet rainy Winter we are having here, to use it much. This is the wettest and warmest winter I have seen up here in thirty years. I have hummingbirds back already, over a month and a half sooner than I have ever seen them. I once saw a hummingbird nest suddenly right in front of me on a limb while I was climbing. It was no larger than a big walnut and had two babies in it. The babies were about the size of one joint of my index finger and yet they had full size bills. OMG, they were cute! Sorry, I suppose that was a derail.

 

[Acerxharlowii]

Working on the set-up and technique using the hook in this video. It is a very efficient way to traverse as long as the target limbs are an appropriate size for the hook opening. I actually find myself looking for smaller limbs than I normally use as a primary tie in point. The angle of the limb to the climber is an important factor in setting the hook and keeping it hooked. The second traverse in this video is to a small maple that had ideally sized limbs higher up but they pointed/angled toward my position too much to be used. Throwing the hook over one limb and hooking it on a lower limb seemed to help with this. The hook action starts at 3:16 and 8:31.

On a side note, it's a difficult conversation to have with family and friends when you try to explain your intentions to go out hookin' again.

You have the best soundtracks to your videos btw!! You also make it look so dam easy. Great video! Got my Trango cinch today in mail and is smooth in 11mm velocity.

 

[Acerxharlowii]

I did something similar with my extra long CE lanyard, adding a hitch and tending pulley on the tail end of the lanyard along with the hook. Have not had a chance, with this wet rainy Winter we are having here, to use it much. This is the wettest and warmest winter I have seen up here in thirty years. I have hummingbirds back already, over a month and a half sooner than I have ever seen them. I once saw a hummingbird nest suddenly right in front of me on a limb while I was climbing. It was no larger than a big walnut and had two babies in it. The babies were about the size of one joint of my index finger and yet they had full size bills. OMG, they were cute! Sorry, I suppose that was a derail.

Lol. Hummingbirds are cool man. I also made a “ce lanyard” replica in the tail of my hook

 

[rope-a-dope]

No sherpas, and all my super climbing strength must be traded for soul. I liked the idea of hook and lanyard unification as well. I just knew from my experience using a 2-in-1 long lanyard I would want them independent to facilitate the frequent rearangements on the harness. Also, I know there will be that time I will want to use all 40 feet of my captain rope, without giving up any lanyard length. I get tangled up enough without my tools sharing the same rope.
Btw I'm using the little pink husky line on the captain and it works well.

 

[Burrapeg]

Yes, it seems awkward to have the hook more or less permanently on the end of one's lanyard. That shackle that comes on the hook is not all the quick to remove and replace, and definitely not something one would do in a tree. It would be all too easy to drop one of the two sizes of allen wenches or that tiny lock screw. It would be good to be able to remove the hook from a line or lanyard easier than that, if one wanted to shift it over to another line or the tail of the main rope, etc. A biner seems too large to have there at the hook, and might effect its positioning, but maybe a 5/16 stainless quick link? They are rather slower to mess with than a biner, but manageable up in the tree at least and not much larger in profile than the hook shackle itself.

 

[Brocky]

Someone else in this thread suggested using a quickdraw dog bone. I use either my climb line or lanyard so they connect easily to it, and it doesn't interfere with the Hook.

 

[John_KAYS]

I was wondering if anyone uses @surveyor's BOLA with their Captain Hook, so I did a search. I wasn't sure whether or not the BOLA was ok to use in an SRT fashion. So, I found a thread, and specifically this post, which addresses the issue.

http://www.treebuzz.com/forum/threads/bola.33956/page-3#post-504970

(If this link only takes you to the top of the page, please scroll down to post #54 to read specifically what I had in mind.) @John_KAYS, maybe you could chime in with any further ropes you've tried to use with the BOLA that seem to work well with it, since your original posts in that thread. Thanks in advance for any comments you wish to make.

It might be nice if we could support the innovators here in our very own forum whenever possible. Gordon's device just slipped my mind in this regard until now, and Gordon is not a pushy gentleman. So I'll push for him. I bought a Hook a little while ago, but I still need to order a rope to go with it. The BOLA would be a nice addition to the setup before I use it for the 1st time. I'm a fair weather climber, for the most part, so with February just about here, it might be awhile before I get to try it out.

I was hoping @surveyor might chime in with a reminder as to what rope sizes he feels are compatible with the BOLA, and what manufacturer & model of rope he would recommend for use with his BOLA. It may have already been mentioned elsewhere, but I don't recall reading about it recently. Thank you, Gordon, in advance, for any answers you choose to provide.

Tim

Why is it that sometimes my notifications get lost in translation... I should be getting notifications anyway as I have commented and am "watching" this thread, but even with the addition of you tagging me I got no notification for some reason. Now I stumble onto 5 pages that I am behind on.

Anyway, sorry.

I do use the Bulldog Bone style BOLA with the captain on the secondary side of my 7/16 KM III 2 in 1 lanyard. I have not tried other lines as this has been very suitable for my application. The BOLA is extremely capable and suited for the Captain Hook and how I use it. I should probably try some other lines too, but I can't get passed the, "if it ain't broke don't fix it."


Other rambling:

I have my Captain 'permanently' attached to the secondary side of my lanyard. There have been a handful of circumstances where I would prefer a carabiner termination rather than the hook, but I can always throw a A.Butterfly or Marlin Spike into my lanyard short of the hook and put a carabiner there if I need it as a second traditional lanyard.

Also you can plan for the climb at hand and set yourself up without the hook, 2 separate lanyards, or hook on a separate system altogether, etc. I find that in carrying the hook with me on "every" climb it is not sitting idle. I use it all the time. Like Moss, I use it as a third work positioning tool. 1. I have my primary climbing line 2. I'm bucked in at the branch I'm working 3. I have my Captain at a short arms reach hooked to give me that apposing positioning point. Sometimes even when you are tied in twice it is convenient to have that third arm to stable yourself for a cut. I use it to advance myself out on a limbwalk or up a second lead in a tree, I use it to free hangers that are out of reach, retrieve ropes that are out of reach (also retrieving natural redirects...let me know if you aren't sure what I mean by this 'cause this is very handy.), I've even lowered my saw down for refueling as a quick bridge to the groundie. I actually rarely use it for traversing into other trees. I definitely use it for it's intended purpose I am just emphasizing the breadth of uses it has and other reasons to carry it.

I understand why people wouldn't want to bring it on every climb and to simplify and lighten their load, so i'm not saying this is the way to go. I am just sharing my experience and how this system has been working for me. I like it.

I'm HOOKED.