DMM throw hook.

If you end up putting a device on it, make sure it is suited to that line construction. Some people prefer hitch cords of smaller diameter than the rope. I don't know how a rope runner/bulldog bone performs on 9mm. I'm running worn out 10mm oceans michoacan hitch on about 15' of old 10.2mm dynamic rock climbing line with a carabiner acting as a hitch climber pulley. I stash it in a salvaged/repurposed mountainsmith frostfire II pack top (now you know my age, lol). It's a very hasty mad max rig composed of spare parts, but it ain't life support and it's got me doing work. Biggest problems I'm having are:

1. I need to be using the line more instead of the branch on my horizontal walks. My foot ascender/hitch combo really gets me to the hook, and things are usually balancy on the limb walks I'm using this thing on. My only concern is that the tight lines won't allow me to swing up onto the branch once I'm at the hook.

2. My double fisherman stopper doesn't slide through crotches, but kind of Monkey fists, preventing the hook from setting. Since the hook is not life support, this is a great opportunity for me to learn how to splice.

3. Extra line management. Careful of a long line that approaches throw line diameter... I'm not sure I'd want to deal with 50ft. of that in a tree.

Things I like about my hook are:

1. Short line is easy to manage and dovetails with my (thus far) "developing" throwing skills.

2. I'm straightforwardly accessing outer canopy that was too inconvenient to access before. I'm sure the career guys have tricks for all those crotches that are 15ft. away - I've seen some great stuff on video from guys like @yoyoman and @Pfanner man - but a hook in the hand can't be more straightforward for a newer guy like me.

3. Spar to spar transitions are great.

In my mind, I may be transitioning the hook to a ce lanyard-type double flipline system with two snaps and a hook.

That all said, I'd like to know how the smaller mm performs if you go that way.
 
Thanks for the replies, I haven't seen anyone mention trying a smaller diameter line than comes in the kit, only larger lines. I have some 6mm Oceans I was planning to use with the sterling 8mm, or some 8mm Sta-set that is rather small for 8 to use on the Samson 9mm.
Scotty
 
Thanks for the replies, I haven't seen anyone mention trying a smaller diameter line than comes in the kit, only larger lines. I have some 6mm Oceans I was planning to use with the sterling 8mm, or some 8mm Sta-set that is rather small for 8 to use on the Samson 9mm.
Scotty

You can use 8mm hitch cord on an 8 or 9mm line, just a matter of dialing in the hitch.
-AJ
 
Considering purchasing the Hook and going with a smaller line for easier storage. Anyone see a problem from a safety standpoint on going with WesSpur 9mm Samson accessory cord? It's rated at 4300lbs double-braid. Or even Sterling 8mm rated at 5170lbs?
Scotty

The stock Reep Schnur is super supple so it compacts and stows nicely, I would verify that any 8 or 9mm line you use is equally supple as the Reep Schnur or it may end up being as bulky stored as the 10mm hook line.
-AJ
 
It's interesting when you compare 8, 9, 10 or 11mm lines for weight per foot and average breaking strength, there seems to be no free lunch. For example if you look at a 10mm line that has close to or the same breaking strength as an 11mm line it is likely that the 10mm line is going to be as heavy per foot as the 11mm line. To achieve higher breaking strengths for a narrower line the fibers need to be denser. There is no magic, if a thinner rope maintains equivalent strength to a thicker rope it requires greater density whether in a tighter weave or higher density fibers or both. I'm sure it's more complicated than that from a rope technology point of view but I find it a decent general rule when looking at thinner lines for life support.
-AJ
 
It's interesting when you compare 8, 9, 10 or 11mm lines for weight per foot and average breaking strength, there seems to be no free lunch. For example if you look at a 10mm line that has close to or the same breaking strength as an 11mm line it is likely that the 10mm line is going to be as heavy per foot as the 11mm line. To achieve higher breaking strengths for a narrower line the fibers need to be denser. There is no magic, if a thinner rope maintains equivalent strength to a thicker rope it requires greater density whether in a tighter weave or higher density fibers or both. I'm sure it's more complicated than that from a rope technology point of view but I find it a decent general rule when looking at thinner lines for life support.
-AJ
Until you add a Spectra/ Dyneema/ UHMWPE... Case in point - Sterling Powercord or NE ultracord


Reed Wortley
ISA CA# SO-6953A
CTSP # 01739
 
Yeah I was thinking of HTP where it seems the fiber is heavier than standard polyester. Is anyone climbing on ropes in the 8-10mm range that have Spectra or Dyneema etc. in them? Maybe per foot cost gets too high if you're not talking about 6mm tech cordage.
-AJ
 
Yeah I was thinking of HTP where it seems the fiber is heavier than standard polyester. Is anyone climbing on ropes in the 8-10mm range that have Spectra or Dyneema etc. in them? Maybe per foot cost gets too high if you're not talking about 6mm tech cordage.
-AJ
I though we were talking about accessory (Captain Hook) lines, not climb lines...


Reed Wortley
ISA CA# SO-6953A
CTSP # 01739
 
Yeah I was thinking of HTP where it seems the fiber is heavier than standard polyester. Is anyone climbing on ropes in the 8-10mm range that have Spectra or Dyneema etc. in them? Maybe per foot cost gets too high if you're not talking about 6mm tech cordage.
-AJ
I though we were talking about accessory (Captain Hook) lines, not climb lines...


Reed Wortley
ISA CA# SO-6953A
CTSP # 01739
 
Yeah I was thinking of HTP where it seems the fiber is heavier than standard polyester. Is anyone climbing on ropes in the 8-10mm range that have Spectra or Dyneema etc. in them? Maybe per foot cost gets too high if you're not talking about 6mm tech cordage.
-AJ
I though we were talking about accessory (Captain Hook) lines, not climb lines...


Reed Wortley
ISA CA# SO-6953A
CTSP # 01739
 
This is getting into a fine line area. The dynema-type UHMWPE lines are not energy absorptive, so they are out of the climbing line discission. With the hook being rated as non-life support, it's tempting to throw a UHMWPE on there, but caveats abound. It need be both externally sheathed and non-milking, e.g. all gear pro force dynema rigging line. The climber would presumably have similar odds of loading that line as the odds that they would load the primary life support line, and the loading would be shared between the two in proportion to the lengths of the respective ropes and the angle of fall at the incident moment. You could end up being arrested solely by the hook line and placing all that strain directly on the harness, when the harness should have had a nice cushy event on the climbing line. In addition, the hook will likely be in small wood at the edge of the canopy, increasing the likelihood of breaking something off through both the circumstamce of superior leverage and smaller wood (as compared to inner canopy attachment points) and receiving the old headache. I think I'd stay away from UHMWPE for this application. Makes me like my rock climbing line setup a bit more, lol.
 
This is getting into a fine line area. The dynema-type UHMWPE lines are not energy absorptive, so they are out of the climbing line discission. With the hook being rated as non-life support, it's tempting to throw a UHMWPE on there, but caveats abound. It need be both externally sheathed and non-milking, e.g. all gear pro force dynema rigging line. The climber would presumably have similar odds of loading that line as the odds that they would load the primary life support line, and the loading would be shared between the two in proportion to the lengths of the respective ropes and the angle of fall at the incident moment. You could end up being arrested solely by the hook line and placing all that strain directly on the harness, when the harness should have had a nice cushy event on the climbing line. In addition, the hook will likely be in small wood at the edge of the canopy, increasing the likelihood of breaking something off through both the circumstamce of superior leverage and smaller wood (as compared to inner canopy attachment points) and receiving the old headache. I think I'd stay away from UHMWPE for this application. Makes me like my rock climbing line setup a bit more, lol.
This is trees, not rock. The energy absorption is in the anchor bro...


Reed Wortley
ISA CA# SO-6953A
CTSP # 01739
 
This is trees, not rock. The energy absorption is in the anchor bro...

Reed Wortley
ISA CA# SO-6953A
CTSP # 01739

I'll go with you so far, but why do most of us use lines that elongate 2-3%? Personally, I find myself climbing above my TIP about as often as I use my saw with one hand, which is roughly how often I eat bald eagle.
 
I'll go with you so far, but why do most of us use lines that elongate 2-3%? Personally, I find myself climbing above my TIP about as often as I use my saw with one hand, which is roughly how often I eat bald eagle.
I'm not really sure why tree guys and ANSI and CE are so into dynamic lines "in case of a fall". Don't fall, that's my motto. I think the rules are there to protect the less experienced...


Reed Wortley
ISA CA# SO-6953A
CTSP # 01739
 
:inocente::inocente:
I'm not really sure why tree guys and ANSI and CE are so into dynamic lines "in case of a fall". Don't fall, that's my motto. I think the rules are there to protect the less experienced...


Reed Wortley
ISA CA# SO-6953A
CTSP # 01739

Lol/hmmm/#cantcommenttilimexperienced/#powerthrough
 
I though we were talking about accessory (Captain Hook) lines, not climb lines...

Now we're getting somewhere. People are using the hook in a way that blurs the line, myself included. For example in all the DMM hook demo videos I've seen the climbers are only using the hook in a way where they are pulling themselves by hand across from point A to point B. Once you add foot ascender, progress captures/hitches etc. you're blurring the line. Once you put more load on the hook than you can hold with just your hands and arms are you now using as a climbing line instead of an accessory line? If you're using a progress capture and climbing nearly vertically on the hook line and something breaks what's happening on swingback on your climbing line? Big impact on limbs or trunk?
-AJ
 
I haven't heard any comment from DMM on using the hook with progress captures. Anyone hear different?

I'm not arguing against using a progress capture, I do but I feel like we're in a gray area in regard to how the manufacturer recommends the device be used.
 

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