DMM throw hook.

[Steve Connally]

Well crap. I'm fresh out of tungsten powder. Sounds like I'm going to have minimal advantage with what I want to do.

 

[TimBr]

Tim, have you ever heard of dielectric corrosion, it's dissimilar metals with direct contact. You would need to apply Nolox of a similar type of material to keep the 2 types of metal from corroding, this in turn would not allow for Loctite or thread seizing application. Which means the bolt that you use would loosen after repeated hits and vibration. As a retired electrician, this is something that I had to deal with every day. AL to SS(chromium alloy), are obviously dissimilar materials. After using the Hook for the past 2 days, I don't see a need to weight the nose or tip of the Hook, this is just my opinion, but I am extremely versed in Cathodic & Dielectric corrosion. I also, IMO, don't see the weight of a Stainless bolt making any real game changing difference in the performance of the Hook. I hope this helps or anything at least clarifies some of your concerns. Be Safe!

Hey, Dave, thanks. Are you saying that the screw that comes installed on the hook is made out of aluminum? And that the threads on the inside of the hook are also tapped into aluminum? If so, I agree with you, and would opt for a bolt made from aluminum, if available. My primary point was with regard to the difficulty moss had in removing a screw that had locktite applied to its threads. I was thinking a hex head would make things easier in the future.

Here's a dumb question for you: Do you think a belleville washer would work under the head of a bolt to keep the bolt from spinning itself loose?

Tim

 

[Dave Rohach]

There aren't very many bolts that size that would affect the nose weight, like you said ML, unless you filled the void with mercury or other heavier substance and a shorter bolt, I (IMO) don't see a way to make it any heavier, unless you used a scaffold knot and steel Biner, IDK, would that work or throw it out of whack? You would have to be sure not to allow the Biner to side load, hence, the scaffold knot or spliced tight eye w/rubber stoppers?

 

[DSMc]

....I just want to tie it on the tail of my cougar. throw on the bdb and go to town.....

Steve, the Captain is listed as 415g that is about 14.5oz and should be plenty of weight as is, to work with your climbing line. Test it out with a 14oz throw bag tied on your line and see is it's enough for you.

 

[Tuebor]

One of the German retail sites says the hook weight is adjustable by removing the bolt to lighten the hook.

 

[Steve Connally]

Steve, the Captain is listed as 415g that is about 14.5oz and should be plenty of weight as is, to work with your climbing line. Test it out with a 14oz throw bag tied on your line and see is it's enough for you.

Sounds brilliant. I use 14oz weights and know the will work for this application as I've fiddled with line advancement before in this manner. Guess I'll just have to get one and go from there. Anyone bringing theirs to the crane climber school?

 

[moss]

One of the German retail sites says the hook weight is adjustable by removing the bolt to lighten the hook.

And I went to all that trouble taking the bolt out ;-) Makes sense Tuebor, thx for doing the research.

 

[moss]

I'm getting one of these in a few weeks. How do you go about UNhooking it? Do you have to climb over to do it by hand?

That it hooks so easily, does this mean that it is harder to relocate a miss-throw?

As Dave mentioned, it's easy to retrieve if you don't like your throw or if you're using the hook for a controlled return from an outer position.

Here's how I get it back:
If you get over a branch you don't like, pull the line back slowly, when the hook reaches the branch pull it over fairly rapidly, the profile of the hook resists the natural inclination of the hook to rotate downward, hook simply slides over the branch. If you pull it back slowly the weight distribution of the hook overcomes the hook profile and rotates it into a downward position and it grabs the branch. In a fast pull over the branch it doesn't have time to rotate into a hook down position and jumps off the branch nicely.

If you're using the hook for a controlled return, after you're back, slack the line, flip some slack back toward the branch, the hook will drop off the branch, do the retrieval procedure described above. You would have figured this out fast Nick ;-) It's very intuitive for anyone who handles rope on a regular basis.

It is remarkably snag proof. For example I got it over a branch and the line did a full wrap around a smaller branch below the target branch. Classic throwbag hangup position. I pulled slowly and it very smoothly unwrapped itself and the hook came free. I'm sure you can figure out a way to hang it up but it's amazingly resistant to becoming snagged when you don't want it to grab.

I mentioned this earlier, the hook is spec'd to work on a max diameter 90mm limb/branch. Since I don't have trained squirrels to go out and measure stuff for me I have found out the following... if you lock the hook on a larger than 90mm branch and it jams tight (it will), simply pull yourself to the jam, lanyard in and take the hook out. If you locked it on a branch like that, chances are great that you intended to go there anyway so it's a win.
-AJ

I did a few edits to address two questions and clarify why I think the slow pullover grabs and the fast pullover doesn't.

PS I'm not a genius, any of you will figure this out in 10 minutes of trying it out, it is clearly designed by climbers, very well tested and likely iterated through many design changes until they got it right.

 

[TimBr]

One other off-the-wall idea I just had is that an owner of the hook could substitute an eye bolt for the threaded screw in the end of the hook. Then use a simple oval link to connect throw bags or other sorts and sizes of weight to the end of the hook. It adds another variable to the setup, but it might work.

Any feedback on this possible idea would be appreciated.

Tim

 

[moss]

One other off-the-wall idea I just had is that an owner of the hook could substitute an eye bolt for the threaded screw in the end of the hook. Then use a simple oval link to connect throw bags or other sorts and sizes of weight to the end of the hook. It adds another variable to the setup, but it might work.

Any feedback on this possible idea would be appreciated.

Tim

I think if you added more weight or too much more weight you would negate the role of the hook's profile in preventing the hook from rotating down when you want to pull it back after a bad throw. Just a guess, it seems very carefully balanced to behave optimally out of the box. However if you get your hands on it you can always mod the crap out of it and see what happens ;-) My general strategy on gear modifications is do a mod to solve a problem I encounter in use. Anytime I repeatedly come up against gear-caused problems while I'm climbing if I don't think the gear is totally useless I'll attempt a mod to solve the problem. I understand there is much anticipation around this device and plenty of speculation about problems that as far as I can tell haven't been discovered yet. Completely understandable and entertaining to try to speculate on problems and solutions.
-AJ

 

[moss]

...In my current work situation, there's only but so much shit I can drag around with me before I get harassed for slowing production.

I've been weighing these questions as I'm exploring working on double stationary rope at the same time I'm learning the hook. That's a bunch of line management! Moderation in everything, I'm finding that I'm going to have to be strategic about when I'm going to go DSRT or when I'm going to use the hook, and that these modes will change back and forth in one work session. For sure my lanyard needs to get shorter!

Mentioning this Steve because I'm thinking you might want to play with the hook in a tree for an hour or so on your own time before bringing it into a production environment. Unless you enjoy driving your crew batshit crazy. Or you may turn out to be a hook prodigy and totally kill it on day-one production climb!

Catch you all later, need to go drag a bunch of brush and wood in the rain due to my recent improved productivity!
-AJ

 

[moss]

I think if I owned that hook and bothered to remove that screw, I'd replace it with a stainless steel hex-head bolt. That would allow me to put a socket wrench on it in the future, for more leverage and an easier time removing it in the future.

Tim

One more...
If you do break the loctite bond and remove the bolt, I would (and likely will) spray the bolt with some kind of lubricant or non-grabbing coating, put it back in, and tighten it well but not torque it down hard. I doubt I will ever take the nose bolt out again, it seems to have zero chance of loosening if tightened normally, 40mm of bolt length is a lot of grab even without loctite. The bolt head is rounded (goes well with the fine DMM machining) and beefy, number 6 hex wrench, you can torque it hard enough to release it and not worry about stripping the hex socket.
-AJ

 

[TimBr]

Hey, moss! Thanks for the above post regarding balancing new techniques with the need for production. Why is it that you feel your lanyard needs to get shorter? Is it because the hook is enabling you to pull yourself out further now, which used to be a task for the lanyard to handle? And now with the hook, the lanyard is primarily used as a secondary means of attachment while cutting, and for work positioning? Or am I way off?

Thanks for any answers you choose to give, and for your patience with me.

Tim

 

[TimBr]

One other off-the-wall idea I just had is that an owner of the hook could substitute an eye bolt for the threaded screw in the end of the hook. Then use a simple oval link to connect throw bags or other sorts and sizes of weight to the end of the hook. It adds another variable to the setup, but it might work.

Any feedback on this possible idea would be appreciated.

Tim

Another advantage to the eye-bolt idea would be that you could use Loctite on it to make it semi-permanent, as all of the variation in weighting will occur outside of the tubing of the hook, at the eye of the bolt. The round eye would seem unlikely to catch on anything, also, if an owner decided to use the hook without any additional weight on the end. You could tape the eye up with electrical tape when no additional weight was attached, if it was a cause for concern.

Tim

 

[TimBr]

One more...
If you do break the loctite bond and remove the bolt, I would (and likely will) spray the bolt with some kind of lubricant or non-grabbing coating, put it back in, and tighten it well but not torque it down hard. I doubt I will ever take the nose bolt out again, it seems to have zero chance of loosening if tightened normally, 40mm of bolt length is a lot of grab even without loctite. The bolt head is rounded (goes well with the fine DMM machining) and beefy, number 6 hex wrench, you can torque it hard enough to release it and not worry about stripping the hex socket.
-AJ

Thanks for this post, AJ. I did not realize it was an Allen-head screw in the end of the hook. Does that screw appear to be made out of aluminum, or something different? Just curious.

Tim

 

[moss]

Thanks for this post, AJ. I did not realize it was an Allen-head screw in the end of the hook. Does that screw appear to be made out of aluminum, or something different? Just curious.

Tim

The bolt/screw is stainless steel. And yeah it's an Allen wrenchable head on the bolt, sorry I'm mechanically capable but illiterate in terms.

 

[TimBr]

@moss, Thanks for these answers. No worries about the nomenclature, I understood you just fine. I appreciate the work you went to to make the illustration and photograph.

It's interesting to me to find out that the screw is made of stainless from the manufacturer. It's possible that they also fabricated the hook so that the threads that receive the original screw are also made of stainless, in order to eliminate the possibility of dielectric corrosion that Dave Rohach referred to earlier. With all of the thought and subtle design work that went into the making of the DMM Captain Throw Hook, it would not surprise me a bit if DMM did this aspect right, also.

Here's the link to the product, again, for those jumping into this thread late.

http://www.treestuff.com/store/catalog.asp?item=15690

Tim

 

[moss]

Hey, moss! Thanks for the above post regarding balancing new techniques with the need for production. Why is it that you feel your lanyard needs to get shorter? Is it because the hook is enabling you to pull yourself out further now, which used to be a task for the lanyard to handle? And now with the hook, the lanyard is primarily used as a secondary means of attachment while cutting, and for work positioning? Or am I way off?

Thanks for any answers you choose to give, and for your patience with me.

Tim

The hook is just to get me places, I've left it in place while using a saw but it is nowhere near as versatile as my lanyard. Lanyard is 15 feet, sometimes the tail gets in the way but with DSRT and a hook in play the long lanyard tail definitely gets in the way.
-AJ

 

[Magnum783]

Sounds brilliant. I use 14oz weights and know the will work for this application as I've fiddled with line advancement before in this manner. Guess I'll just have to get one and go from there. Anyone bringing theirs to the crane climber school?

If you want a different weight bolt get me the specs and I will build it for you. We have had to build some odd stuff as of late this would be normal.

 

[Merle Nelson]

Appreciate your perspectives and elaborate explanations of using the hook Moss. You may not be a genius but, your explanations compared to what I would say, "It works well and feels like a swiss watch in use", are definitely very helpful for picking up subtleties in its use.

By the way, if I ever in using it thought I could get more out of it by weighting the nose more I would add washers of slightly less dia than the nose, or find/make a long spacer.