basal anchor safety

yoyoman said:
Nice Mac, well written. My post kind of misses the mark of what you are talking about. This whole discussion can have SO many variables. What is applied is an estimate of what is needed, what is needed, in my mind, diverse ability to come up with solutions in most environments before an incident. To look at what someone is doing and always ask yourself, how will I help them if......
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Thanks Richard, I agree about variables. I think this occupation (or recreation) has just infinite variations on how to get the same task done. And my thought behind base anchors is that they add more options for a rescue situation. They might not all work all the time, but I like to have options. And I don't think you trade off much by using a base anchor instead of a canopy anchor.

Although I was talking to someone about a trial they had done with using the retrieval leg of a canopy anchor as an access line. Which opens up possibilities. Even if the climber weight differential is to great, you can anchor the tail of the working end so that the canopy anchor stays in place.
 
macswan said:
.....Although I was talking to someone about a trial they had done with using the retrieval leg of a canopy anchor as an access line. Which opens up possibilities. Even if the climber weight differential is to great, you can anchor the tail of the working end so that the canopy anchor stays in place.
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I use it all the time for tall trees, TIP above 150 feet, the moment I reach the TIP, do my bunny ears.... another climber is ready to ascend and I already have my rescue line set. (the one I'm on)
I realize I'm coming at it from mostly a different environment, lots of climbers on different systems in foreign environments and very tall trees.
...again, versatility in my case is the key to a good rescue technique.
 
Did not read any of this....but I love my pinto canopy anchor....and so easy to retrieve even after many redirects...can't break the habit...
 
Hey mac nice job, good that you touched on newer srt climbers being more comfortable with canopy anchor, that has been my experience as well, but as levi mentioned, once you get comfortable with basal, the compression forces are so much more useful than shearing forces often put on individual leaders in ddrt and srt canopy anchor. Neat how srt can make you a better rigger also, using the whole plant system!
 
I been climbing SRT for a while, base tie is just for entering the tree most times...I weigh 185lbs....what forces can I possibly put on a canopy anchor....just pick a solid TIP...not rocket science....too much thinking here....base anchor is good for quick up and downs for me...working a whole tree I am going canopy
 
I don't think canopy anchors are more dangerous than base anchors as far as forces go, I just like the possible ground rescue option with a base anchor. I am often on jobs without another climber. Even with a canopy anchor, that has an access/retrieval leg, there is only one other climber at my shop that is proficient with srt. So having a ground rescue option is clutch
 
The only thing that would make me want to use a canopy anchor vs. a basal anchor is the potential for cutting/damaging the anchor leg in the basal scenario. Other than that I believe the basal offers many more options, including the ability to work off of a weaker TIP.
 
I know I've said it in another thread, but it seems worth repeating here.

Years ago, when I climbed primarily DdRT, I felt best after establishing my Primary TIP.

After climbing SRWP for a good bit now, I find myself feeling most comfortable and secure once I've established a few redirects in the crown. This holds true for base anchors and canopy anchors as well. More to the point, I prefer a base anchor for the following reasons. I think about all the rope in my system, for energy absorption. I think about compression forces, rather than bending moments. The overall feeling in return is great for me.

I used to slowly ease myself into redirects, whether static or dynamic, and would carefully observe the resultant forces. Now I can drop through things with enough experience to ease my mind. Base anchors give more rope to distribute energy here. There's a definite safety factor with that in mind. Just how much is situationally dependent, but there none the less.

In regard to safety at ground level, my thought is that crew understanding and training with any chosen system is key. We can all speak to no end about what method is best and why, but it's best in my opinion to create and practice a variety of systems and techniques for the different scenarios potentially encountered on the jobsite. Keep things tidy and well organized while everyone maintains that 3D awareness and we all go home happy and in one piece.
 
swingdude said:
I been climbing SRT for a while, base tie is just for entering the tree most times...I weigh 185lbs....what forces can I possibly put on a canopy anchor....just pick a solid TIP...not rocket science....too much thinking here....base anchor is good for quick up and downs for me...working a whole tree I am going canopy
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Canopy is anchor is plenty safe not arguing. But I'm talking about hanging and swinging from one stem, watching it pull away from others, vs multiple redirects pulling stems up and towards eachother, working w the structure and biomechanics of the tree.
Shearing vs compression.
But then again when I was climbing causuarina and flamboyant in hawaii it was all canopy anchor.
 
Maybe someone already said this..How about raising the basal anchor to a point that maybe the ground worker would be able to lower climber or add line into system upon reaching over head to do so . Setting up a style of lower able anchor that suits the need for raising the hands over the head to do so not making it a struggle.This is also an area a ground saw should never be, so groundy literally need to be cutting over they're head at the trunk to accidentally hit the rope.Could be a bit safer if it tight conditions and the material needs to be dealt with in the vicinity of the base of trunk. Which proper training should be the greatest ease of mind ,but as we all know accidents happen.This way you just have to worry about cutting your own line in tree not so much someone else beneath you.. I think raising the base anchor up to find the medium between out of reach and out of reach from ground saw use could prove safer is basically what im sayin!
 
Don't get me wrong I am comfortable working off base anchors good enough....actually before I found the pinto canopy anchor and was using a mallion, I truly preferred the base as I always could retrieve the rope easier after many redirects...now, Eric is so right with the rope in system and shared load makes for better absorption...now what I don't like is the pulling motion it creates when run through springy branches high up in the canopy, it does happen with canopy ( but lesser if a nice canopy TIP is chosen ) but I find to a lesser extent..I know a static redirect can solve this most times...anyways guess different styles cause different likes and dislikes...bot are good to go and I will use each according to tree...
 
I've used redirects extensively when rigging. With my fledgling efforts in SRT I still isolated though I used a basal anchor. Habit more than anything. If we're talking about the safety factor of a ground based rescue then what training is being done to ensure complete familiarity of your ground crew with the system and how to operate it in an emergency scenario? Is this a annual/monthly/weekly drill? As Rach4l's accident highlighted, once you're in an emergency situation you've become reliant on how well your crew functions under duress.
 
Looking at the idea of protecting the basal anchor line from cutting or damage, how about a 6' section of PVC or something to run the rope through right above the knot to shield the danger-zone ?
 
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